How would Ukraine have coped if it had been our Armed Forces defending?

Is this the point where we ask @Bravo_Bravo if the thread is going as he expected?
 
I think that the Ukraine troops have done pretty well with the training they have already received from US and UK special forces and special operations troops since the previous invasion... do they really need your "enormous" brigade sized formation to be instantly upscaled to army size to assist? or should you be focusing on training up and improving what bit and kit you have for RRF if things get more out of hand?
 
Couple of conditions:
  • The number of troops increased by a third to match the numbers in Ukraine's Armed Forces
  • No troops on overseas deployments, all in Ukraine
  • Kit, weapons, TTPs etc all per UK spec and UK numbers
  • No Article 5
While I have little doubt we have a substantial qualitative superiority in many areas (CR2, T45. QNLZ Astutes Typhoon for starters) the numbers are low.

I wonder if anyone has already given thought to this in the MoD...
If we had 1,944 km of Border with Russia then we would have made hugely different decisions on equipment (eg what would be the need for " T45. QNLZ Astutes", would we be bothering with the need for world wide deployability etc)
 
If it came to that I am of the belief that there would be a very large number of individuals of EEA nationality who would have to be physically restrained from going full Reinhardt - there are a lot of Eastern Europeans in the UK who have a rather negative view of Russia.

There are also ALOT of fairly recent ex-military who know exactly how to seed the ground with effective IEDs - there wouldn’t be an inch of ground on our border that an enemy would feel confident walking over without searching first.
That'd show the Irish
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
If we had 1,944 km of Border with Russia then we would have made hugely different decisions on equipment (eg what would be the need for " T45. QNLZ Astutes", would we be bothering with the need for world wide deployability etc)
The UK being an island would need to defend convoy routes for a starter.
 

Yokel

LE
The UK being an island would need to defend convoy routes for a starter.

Yes we do - and there is a possibility that Ukraine will need to. However we cannot be invaded by land - bar Northern Island. Geography matters! Defending an island is somewhat different to defending a nation with vulnerable land borders.

However that does not mean this type of thread does not have merit, and create points worth discussing. Over the last few years I have watched various programmes on things like Forces TV with what used to be Challenger II units adapting to the future - replacing sixty odd tonnes of tracked armour and a 120mm gun with with looks like a beefed up beach buggy, armed with a GPMG or two. How exactly is that adapting to modern threats? Even if it made sense at the time of SDSR10, has anyone rethought it in recent years?

Similarly the cuts to RAF transport aircraft numbers, and things like retiring the E-3 Sentry before its replacement is ready, or getting rid of the Sentinel R1. RAF transport and ISTAR aircraft have been busy in recent months.
 

Yokel

LE
Britain is an island, Northern Ireland isn't

Thank you Dr Pedantic.

Great Britain is an island. Northern Ireland is part of another island. No part of the United Kingdom shares a land border with a hostile power, and the only country that we have a land border with does not have another border. Therefore we can safely say we do not need to worry about land invasion.

Approximately 95% of imports and exports go by sea, and if we want to deploy military equipment anywhere then it mostly has to go by sea, even with Europe. We are part of a military alliance that has members in Europe and North America, connected via the North Atlantic with vital Sea Lines of Communication that are critical for reinforcement and resupply in a crisis.

@diverman made a point that stands up to any sort of critical analysis.
 
Britain is an island, Northern Ireland isn't
NI is part of an island though. The majority of our trade comes over the Irish Sea from the mainland.

As shown lately with the P&O debacle, our food imports are down 50% apparently because the two P&O ferries at Larne aren't running.
 
BN's gone for a late retirement in a Shropshire home for elderly airframes.

Only after a few hard shifts in Afghanistan.
FB_IMG_1649167235015[1].jpg.png
 
They’d have been in complete and utter bother from the start.

Manchester - routed by the gangs who’d not welcome the appearance of new rivals, and who’d find the captured armour handy for inter-gang disputes afterwards.

Liverpool - routed by the gangs who’d not welcome the appearance of new rivals, and who’d nick what was left of their logs

Birmingham - fighting a jihad in and around Sparkbrook which’d make the Taleban look like Buddhists; a brutal urban fight in and around Aston where the local drug gangs would significantly overmatch the average BTG’s firepower, and as for Walsall and the surrounding areas, may the Lord have mercy upon their souls (particularly in the vicinity of Bloxwich)

As for Scotland - “ Sometime about the year AD2022, the Ninth BTG, which was stationed at Eburacum, where York now stands, marched north to deal with a rising amongst the Caledonian tribes and was never heard of again….”

 
They’d have been in complete and utter bother from the start.

Manchester - routed by the gangs who’d not welcome the appearance of new rivals, and who’d find the captured armour handy for inter-gang disputes afterwards.

Liverpool - routed by the gangs who’d not welcome the appearance of new rivals, and who’d nick what was left of their logs

Birmingham - fighting a jihad in and around Sparkbrook which’d make the Taleban look like Buddhists; a brutal urban fight in and around Aston where the local drug gangs would significantly overmatch the average BTG’s firepower, and as for Walsall and the surrounding areas, may the Lord have mercy upon their souls (particularly in the vicinity of Bloxwich)

As for Scotland - members of the SA and SNP welcomed the brave russian liberaters with bread salt and vodka/iron bru, saint nicola thanked them for freeing scotland from the evil torries,just before ivan brassed them up with the gpmgski

FOC​

 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Similarly the cuts to RAF transport aircraft numbers, and things like retiring the E-3 Sentry before its replacement is ready, or getting rid of the Sentinel R1. RAF transport and ISTAR aircraft have been busy in recent months.
The E3 fleet required serious upgrading which should have been done years ago, but the politicians wouldn't cough up, now USAF are looking in the future at decommissioning the E3s in favour of E7s. The problem with the USAF R3s I suspect are the engines which have very old ones unlike the CFM 56s the RAF have. The age of the E3 airframe spares maybe are becoming difficult to obtain whilst the E7 is a B737-800 airframe. The Sentinel has been run into the ground. For a UOR it has done very well. Oh for Magic Mushroom to still be around.

Losing the remaining C130s is I agree madness and the A400 is still a pile of junk, but it was foisted on the RAF for political reasons to be 'good europeans' by Blair/Brown. The RAF would rather have had C17s and C130s. The Luftwaffe has major serviceability problems with the A400, maybe just down to money? As for ISTAR, the Rivet Joints from 51 squadron have been working in conjunction with 55RW since the start of this and now the Swedes have moved from operating over the Baltic to operating over Poland.
Yes we do - and there is a possibility that Ukraine will need to. However we cannot be invaded by land - bar Northern Island. Geography matters! Defending an island is somewhat different to defending a nation with vulnerable land borders.

However that does not mean this type of thread does not have merit, and create points worth discussing. Over the last few years I have watched various programmes on things like Forces TV with what used to be Challenger II units adapting to the future - replacing sixty odd tonnes of tracked armour and a 120mm gun with with looks like a beefed up beach buggy, armed with a GPMG or two. How exactly is that adapting to modern threats? Even if it made sense at the time of SDSR10, has anyone rethought it in recent years?

Similarly the cuts to RAF transport aircraft numbers, and things like retiring the E-3 Sentry before its replacement is ready, or getting rid of the Sentinel R1. RAF transport and ISTAR aircraft have been busy in recent months.
 
The E3 fleet required serious upgrading which should have been done years ago, but the politicians wouldn't cough up, now USAF are looking in the future at decommissioning the E3s in favour of E7s. The problem with the USAF R3s I suspect are the engines which have very old ones unlike the CFM 56s the RAF have. The age of the E3 airframe spares maybe are becoming difficult to obtain whilst the E7 is a B737-800 airframe. The Sentinel has been run into the ground. For a UOR it has done very well. Oh for Magic Mushroom to still be around.

Losing the remaining C130s is I agree madness and the A400 is still a pile of junk, but it was foisted on the RAF for political reasons to be 'good europeans' by Blair/Brown. The RAF would rather have had C17s and C130s. The Luftwaffe has major serviceability problems with the A400, maybe just down to money? As for ISTAR, the Rivet Joints from 51 squadron have been working in conjunction with 55RW since the start of this and now the Swedes have moved from operating over the Baltic to operating over Poland.
E-3 Sentry were are told is clapped out, but have been purchased by Chile AF so they expect to get a few years out of them? also one airframe sold to USN !!! According to my old school atlas the delivery flight from Waddo to Chile is a long way so they must be up to it. So here we are largest war in Europe since 1945 and we have an airbourne AEW gap! NATO E-3 fleet must be fully tasked so cannot help out. Or is this gap to cover the pilot shortage? CAS Wokie Wiggie hope we do not go to war this summer!
 

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