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How would old vehicles fare in current theatres

#1
I was watching something on the telly about Rolls Royce Armoured Cars the other day and got to thinking how would vehicles of yesteryear cope in todays theatres

if

1. They were just dropped in
2. The basic design was used but with new materials, engines, electronics, weapons etc


The Rolls Royce Armoured Car


Humber


AEC Armoured Car


Coventry Armoured Car


Ferret


Staghound


Saladin


or even a Fox
 
#2
I'm no expert but I would guess that out of the trinity firepower would be fine or easily upgraded but mobility would be completely degraded (or indeed removed) once you added the theatre spec of protection!
 
#3
Your second point stating that same design, but newer engines etc is the whats really happening now. Ferret and Fox (and maybe Saladin) were used at the same time as 432's and now we have re-engineered, designed Bulldog!
But as has been mentioned before, on some vehicles the armour levels, E/EECM and comm's kit, all in can weigh upto 3-4t. To achieve that on older designs would be impossible, hence why you cant bolt on adequate armour onto Beford/Daf's etc.

And what Horrid said :wink:
 
#5
swampmonster said:
Most of the snatch's are older than the lads driving them......
Like the Foden TTFs in TELIC 1, or the 'new' Bulldogs currently!
 
#6
All of you Old armoured cars look as though they would lose their wheels easily, weather the armoured hull would protect those inside is another matter.
john
 
#7
Dont forget, all those pictures are of vehicles that have seen action in hot places

If you look at tanks or say fighter aircraft you can see an clear evolution path from WW1 to today but with these vehicles it seems the progression is less pronounced. In 70 years of development we have gone from the Rolls Royce armoured car to the MWMIK, is this really progress

Does a WMIK, Pinz or Jackal really show 70 years of evolution in terms of protection, mobility and firepower

Would dropping in a Coventry armoured car for a WMIK really be a massive step back

Do we need a modern armoured car
 
#9
PandaLOVE said:
In hindsight I think Op Granby would still have been a success had we used Spitfires. 8)
It was only a success due to the presence of Mark 1 ferrets with no armament. Stay behind Iraqi special forces reported their presence and the decision was made to capitulate.
Either that or there were some raving loonies who thought this was an acceptable liaison vehicle.
 
#10
We hammered this out here:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=99444/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

Any of the armoured cars would be more potent and protected than a WMIK or even a MWMIK.

I think the conclusions pointed towards sticking a fifty on top of a Spartan and sending that out on patrol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV103_Spartan

Of course, tracks cost more to maintain than wheels and we've got the London Olympics to pay for. How many armoured cars could you buy for £9,300,000,000?
 
#11
Saracens were red hot to drive in Northern Ireland,so I can imagine they would be absolutely unbearable in Afghanistan or Iraq,and the Pigs would be useless because when they were uparmoured they left the engines alone so on anything else apart from roads they wouldn't be able to move and they were both petrol powered as well
 
#12
meridian said:
Dont forget, all those pictures are of vehicles that have seen action in hot places

If you look at tanks or say fighter aircraft you can see an clear evolution path from WW1 to today but with these vehicles it seems the progression is less pronounced. In 70 years of development we have gone from the Rolls Royce armoured car to the MWMIK, is this really progress

Does a WMIK, Pinz or Jackal really show 70 years of evolution in terms of protection, mobility and firepower

Would dropping in a Coventry armoured car for a WMIK really be a massive step back

Do we need a modern armoured car


There's the Mobility-Firepower-Protection triangle, to increase one area you pretty much reduce another, so to get a vehicle that has high mobility you have to reduce the weight, so you remove either firepower or protection, if you want to add protection you have to reduce the mobility of the vehicle and so on.

The WMIK and Jackal aren't made for protection, same as the Mastiff isn't made for high mobility
 
#13
Gordon, is that you?
 
#16
Argee2007 said:
meridian said:
Dont forget, all those pictures are of vehicles that have seen action in hot places

If you look at tanks or say fighter aircraft you can see an clear evolution path from WW1 to today but with these vehicles it seems the progression is less pronounced. In 70 years of development we have gone from the Rolls Royce armoured car to the MWMIK, is this really progress

Does a WMIK, Pinz or Jackal really show 70 years of evolution in terms of protection, mobility and firepower

Would dropping in a Coventry armoured car for a WMIK really be a massive step back

Do we need a modern armoured car


There's the Mobility-Firepower-Protection triangle, to increase one area you pretty much reduce another, so to get a vehicle that has high mobility you have to reduce the weight, so you remove either firepower or protection, if you want to add protection you have to reduce the mobility of the vehicle and so on.

The WMIK and Jackal aren't made for protection, same as the Mastiff isn't made for high mobility
Exacly. Much like Body Armour you can't have it all. WMIK does the job well enough. Leave it alone I say!

As for the comments about moving on 70 years. Lets not fix what aint broken!
 
#17
REMEbrat said:
This from 1966 would fare well in all current theatres I think....
Except that version didn't come out for another 20 years! Basic model didn't perform very well against Iraqi T-62 either.
 
#20
ObnoxiousJockGit said:
REMEbrat said:
This from 1966 would fare well in all current theatres I think....
Except that version didn't come out for another 20 years! Basic model didn't perform very well against Iraqi T-62 either.
Were the Iraqis given Chieftains with the same quality armour as those by us Brits?
 

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