How will the Ukraine war end?

How will the Ukraine war end?

  • Rebels win,Eastern Ukraine goes independent

    Votes: 100 48.1%
  • Putin invades Kiev, NATO doesn't move

    Votes: 62 29.8%
  • Putin invades Kiev, NATO fights Russia

    Votes: 12 5.8%
  • Rebels lose, Ukraine stays united

    Votes: 34 16.3%

  • Total voters
    208

YarS

On ROPS
On ROPs
H P Lovecraft walt
Not only. Lewis Matthew Gregory, Horace Walpole, Mary Shelley, Charles Robert Maturin, William Thomas Beckford, Ann Radcliffe, Bran Stoker and last but not least - George Raymond Richard Martin.
All this Anglosaxxon attempts of rethinking of Medieval culture. May be, roots of modern West Russophobia, Christianophobia and Thanatophobia lie in your fall in the Heresy.
 
Not sure this has been posted so forgive me, but you remember those so called "patriotic locals" fighting the Ukrainian government in Donetsk in 2015?

One of their leaders, named Valery Asapov, just happened to die in Syria, wearing a Russian general's uniform while commanding Russian troops

I wonder what our resident Russians will think of this one ?
Be very careful with Reuters of the World - well known fake news producer.
Let's scrutinize the atricle, more right fairy-tale.
In the fall of 2015, pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine were introduced to a moustachioed new commander who, like his predecessors, went by the codename Tuman - “fog” in Russian.
Also like his predecessors, he appeared to be a Russian national. He signed documents as General Primakov.
When he was killed while on official assignment to Syria two years later, it turns out that this name was also fake, a deception to hide Russia’s central role in a conflict that Moscow and the rebels maintain was entirely homegrown.
In fact, Valery Asapov was a Russian general working undercover.
That is the source of these allegations? They are 5 unnamed 'rebels'.
The rebels who spoke to Reuters asked not to be named because they did not want to be identified giving away secrets.
So taking into account reputation of Reuters of the World, the whole story could be just invented, to be just fake 'news'.
Reuters also claims that it interviewed a brother of gen.Asapov. But what exactly has he said?
Asapov’s younger brother Vyacheslav also confirmed that his brother was in Ukraine.
“He was there. For an entire year,” he told Reuters in September, several days after giving a eulogy at his brother’s funeral.
“How did he feel about it? He was okay with it, like any military man,” he said by telephone from the Asapovs’ hometown in the Kirov region, 800 km (500 miles) east of Moscow.
To visit Ukraine and to be a commander of separatist forces are two different things. Gen.Asapov could help to distribute humanitarian aid, to consult, to assist military education, training. In Syria gen.Asapov did the same things.
So Reuters as it uses to do, presented some allegations as proven facts and what?

Also, let's look at Wikipedia
Valery Asapov - Wikipedia
There is a very interesting source - #10
"War criminal, Major General of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation ASAPOV Valerii Hryhorovych (undercover name – Prymakov)" [War criminal, lieutenant general of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Asapov Valery Grigorievich (name of the cover - Primakov)]. The Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine (in eng). Retrieved 25 September 2017.

So, these allegations are not something new. Ukrainian. Ukrainian MoD (its intelligence service) wrote about it long ago.
In July, 2015, he was sent to “the tour of duty” to Rostov-on-Don. Since August, 2015, – Commander of the 1st Army Corps (Donetsk, Ukraine) of the Center of the Territorial Forces of the Southern Military District of AF RF” (surname under cover is Prymakov).
 
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To visit Ukraine and to be a commander of separatist forces are two different things. Gen.Asapov could help to distribute humanitarian aid, to consult, to assist military education, training. In Syria gen.Asapov did the same things.
A Lt General distributes aid? More likely he'd be in charge of those who distribute 'aid' be it food, water or weapons. Coordinating the effort etc. That's what General's do imx.

Whether he was there in charge of separatist forces is the debatable point and on the balance of probabilities he was.
 

YarS

On ROPS
On ROPs
Although IIRC your quote should be attributed to some priest on the Iron Islands during the ceremonial drowning/ coronation of Euron Gayjoy
Actually it is based on the Romans, 6:3-12

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness ofhis resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
 
Although IIRC your quote should be attributed to some priest on the Iron Islands during the ceremonial drowning/ coronation of Euron Gayjoy
Actually it is based on the Romans, 6:3-12

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness ofhis resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Only someone with a deep seated need for support from imaginary friends would know or care about that


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A Lt General distributes aid? More likely he'd be in charge of those who distribute 'aid' be it food, water or weapons. Coordinating the effort etc. That's what General's do imx.

Whether he was there in charge of separatist forces is the debatable point and on the balance of probabilities he was.
It is not clear did gen.Asapov ever visit Ukraine in 2015.
Let's read Reuters article carefully.
Asapov’s younger brother Vyacheslav also confirmed that his brother was in Ukraine.
But has he really confirmed it?
He was there. For an entire year,” he told Reuters in September, several days after giving a eulogy at his brother’s funeral.
Note, the brother said 'he was there'. Where exactly, in Syria or in Ukraine?
Reuters journalist could ask about Syria and later on the tape change the question or could ask about Ukraine but due to low quality of telephone connection Asapov's brother could understand it as a question about Syria. Asapov's brother himself doesn't mention Ukraine at all.
“How did he feel about it? He was okay with it, like any military man,” he said by telephone from the Asapovs’ hometown in the Kirov region, 800 km (500 miles) east of Moscow.
And here the brother could mean Syria, not Ukraine.

So we have only allegations not confirmed by any independent source.
As for balance of probabilities then probability that Reuters found 5 separatists that told something very sensitive, apparenty secret to openly pro-Kiev news agency is zero. For what reason did they tell this story previously published (invented) by Ukrainian MoD?
 
It is not clear did gen.Asapov ever visit Ukraine in 2015.
Let's read Reuters article carefully.

But has he really confirmed it?

Note, the brother said 'he was there'. Where exactly, in Syria or in Ukraine?
Reuters journalist could ask about Syria and later on the tape change the question or could ask about Ukraine but due to low quality of telephone connection Asapov's brother could understand it as a question about Syria. Asapov's brother himself doesn't mention Ukraine at all.

And here the brother could mean Syria, not Ukraine.

So we have only allegations not confirmed by any independent source.
As for balance of probabilities then probability that Reuters found 5 separatists that told something very sensitive, apparenty secret to openly pro-Kiev news agency is zero. For what reason did they tell this story previously published (invented) by Ukrainian MoD?
You're just using semantics now ref the brother.

I know your job is to lie, obfuscate and deny, but there comes a time when you should be reasonable. I know it's asking a lot but the bottom line is he went to Ukraine and as a Lt General with Comd experience it is likely he led the forces there. Not 100% certain as Moscow will lie and never confirm, but the balance of probabilities is he did.
 
You're just using semantics now ref the brother.

I know your job is to lie, obfuscate and deny, but there comes a time when you should be reasonable. I know it's asking a lot but the bottom line is he went to Ukraine and as a Lt General with Comd experience it is likely he led the forces there. Not 100% certain as Moscow will lie and never confirm, but the balance of probabilities is he did.
I have to repeat it. The article in Reuters is very doubtful and the allegations (in fact forged by Ukrainian MoD) are not confirmed by independent sources. So they remain just allegations.
 
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I have to repeat it. The article in Reuters is very doubtful and as the allegations (in fact forged by Ukrainian MoD) are not confirmed by independent sources. So they remain just allegations.
I have to repeat it, you don't like Reuters since they quoted Bellingcat on MH17. The allegations are that he was there. This is confirmed by his brother. In what role is in dispute but the balance of probabilities is that he was in command. Still, carry on with the obfuscation and denial.
 
I have to repeat it, you don't like Reuters since they quoted Bellingcat on MH17. The allegations are that he was there. This is confirmed by his brother. In what role is in dispute but the balance of probabilities is that he was in command. Still, carry on with the obfuscation and denial.
Reuters was caught on falsehood and it frequently (as in the case) presents allegations as facts. As for Bellingcat then I quoted it myself and demonstrated rude forgery and apparent mistakes in their so called 'research'.
 
Reuters was caught on falsehood and it frequently (as in the case) presents allegations as facts. As for Bellingcat then I quoted it myself and demonstrated rude forgery and apparent mistakes in their so called 'research'.
More dissembling. Did the Generals brother lie or not?
 

YarS

On ROPS
On ROPs
More dissembling. Did the Generals brother lie or not?
If he is general brother it does not mean, that he can not lie. But we didn't even read his words. We read Reuters journalists words - and they lie as breath. Absolutelly unproffesional and untruthworthable source. Less then zero reputation.
 
More dissembling. Did the Generals brother lie or not?
If he is general brother it does not mean, that he can not lie. But we didn't even read his words. We read Reuters journalists words - and they lie as breath. Absolutelly unproffesional and untruthworthable source. Less then zero reputation.
Well you would know all about that you twat


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If he is general brother it does not mean, that he can not lie.
Is he telling lies on this occasion?
But we didn't even read his words. We read Reuters journalists words - and they lie as breath. Absolutelly unproffesional and untruthworthable source. Less then zero reputation.
Pot and Kettle Shagrat
 
More dissembling. Did the Generals brother lie or not?
I don't think that he lied. It appears that all his quotes from the Reuters interview don't contain the key word - Ukraine.
There are plenty of possibilities
- the brother was not interviewed by Reuters at all and it is merely forgery.
- the brother was asked about Syria and his answers were presented as answers about Ukraine.
- the brother could not understand that the question was about Ukraine as his brother died in Syria just before the interview and answered about Syria.
Did Reuters lie? It is possible. Anyway I would not be surprised. Reuters could
- present audio record with the interview.
- ask the brother to answer relevant questions again or/and confirm his statement with direct mention of Ukraine.
 
I don't think that he lied. It appears that all his quotes from the Reuters interview don't contain the key word - Ukraine.
There are plenty of possibilities
- the brother was not interviewed by Reuters at all and it is merely forgery.
- the brother was asked about Syria and his answers were presented as answers about Ukraine.
- the brother could not understand that the question was about Ukraine as his brother died in Syria just before the interview and answered about Syria.
Did Reuters lie? It is possible. Anyway I would not be surprised. Reuters could
- present audio record with the interview.
- ask the brother to answer relevant questions again or/and confirm his statement with direct mention of Ukraine.
That’s an awful lot of dissembling. Either the brother said what he said to Reuters or he didn’t. You yourself said the General could’ve been there to assist. Balance of probabilities is he was there and in charge. Beyond reasonable doubt? Not yet.
 
That’s an awful lot of dissembling. Either the brother said what he said to Reuters or he didn’t.
As I have noted there are other possibilities
- the brother of gen.Asapov was not interviewed at all. And Reuters just forged the story.
- the brother was asked about mission of gen.Asapov in Syria. And Reuters falsely attributed his words to Ukraine.
- the brother could not understnd properly (via telephone) the question and could be sure that he was asked about Syria, not Ukraine.
You yourself said the General could’ve been there to assist.
Yes, I don't deny that gen.Asapov could or could not visit Ukraine. It is not established. We don't have alternative sources that confirm the story. So it remains merely an allegation.
Balance of probabilities is he was there and in charge. Beyond reasonable doubt? Not yet.
Balance of probabilities is a form to express private opinions, estimates, suppositions, allegations. Of course you have right for your own opinion and your obedient servant has it as well.

There is an interesting detail. Reuters claims that general's brother was allegedly interviewed in September 2017. The allegations that the article in Reuters contains were presented by Ukrainian MoD also in September 2017. So why it (this information) was not published in September 2017?
 

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