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How will the Ukraine war end?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Skylog, Mar 6, 2015.

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  1. Rebels win,Eastern Ukraine goes independent

    78 vote(s)
    51.7%
  2. Putin invades Kiev, NATO doesn't move

    40 vote(s)
    26.5%
  3. Putin invades Kiev, NATO fights Russia

    8 vote(s)
    5.3%
  4. Rebels lose, Ukraine stays united

    25 vote(s)
    16.6%
  1. I suppose my post to @YarS was to get him to at least acknowledge that the treatment by the Soviets of the regions varied. Though the whole of Russia had food shortages, not all areas starved so they could have had relief but weren't given it and were treated cruelly. Can't now find the sources easily now to back that up.

    1932-33 Soviet Famine
     
  2. So they don't actually exist. They're just your imagination.

    I'll agree with that. But you assume you'll be victorious. You may not be.

    In the very first paragraph it says this:

    Which means it's someone's imagination. That is it doesn't exist.

    Given that you're a vodka soaked kapusta brained yollop, you'll probably be dead even sooner than that from too much alcohol. That's future history for you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    We are creating future with our actions. Imagination-action-history. It's a one process.
    "Two beer, or not two beer: That is the question."
     
  4. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Sure. In more productive regions there were a lack opportunities to find additional, not agricultural, food. In the regions with weak productivity people can survive by hunting and gathering.
     
  5. Note that the first and most extensive example given in your link is in North Caucasus, that is the plains of southern Russia east of the Black Sea. Another example further down mentions "the Ukraine, North Caucasus, and Lower Volga." Lower Volga of course is also in Russia. I've seen other sources also mentioning Kazakhstan and Western Siberia.

    The reason that grain producing areas would have suffered more than other agricultural areas has to do with the portability and ease of storage of grain versus many other crops. In grain growing areas the grain itself tends to be both the local staple food and the commodity which is traded to elsewhere for other goods. With most other crops, at least in those days, food production and consumption tended to be both more diverse and to stay local to a greater degree. Hence, when troops showed up to make sure that you delivered what the five year plan said you were to deliver and no excuses accepted comrade, grain growing areas would have been more heavily affected.

    I haven't seen how major livestock producing areas such as the steppes of Central Asia were affected during the same time period, but I would not be surprised if they faced similar problems.

    Coal miners, steel makers, and all sorts of other people would face similar demands for their products, but you don't eat coal. This is the period when engineers and factory managers were being shipped off to Siberia as "saboteurs" when the five year plan wasn't met, but those numbers don't show up under the famine column.


    By contrast, during the same period in Canada prairie farmers were undergoing incredible hardship as persistent drought (the world was undergoing an extended warm and dry period) caused their farms to dry up and blow away and turn into desert. The difference here (in Canada) is that other parts of the country sent them food rather than taking it, and large numbers of them abandoned their farms and moved east to Ontario or west to BC. The latter wasn't an option in the grain areas of the USSR, as internal passports had been used since the days of the Czar to keep the peasants from leaving their land.

    As a rather interesting side note, many of the Canadian prairie farmers were Ukrainian, although they were from Galicia (part of Austria-Hungary at the time) rather than the Russian Empire. Many of them had left Galicia in the late 19th century because of the mass famines which were chronic in that area.

    Or to sum the whole thing up again, despite what @YarS may pretend to think, communism doesn't work.
     
  6. If you source a reference, I'm happy to read it. You're saying something was said in a five volume 3,000 plus page publication. Which page and what is the quote?
    These allies which gave you succour until you surrendered
     
  7. I really don't know why you guys interact with this psychotic little turd with a tenuous grip on reality.
     
  8. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Ok. Now let me ask another question:
    How many books about Civil War in Russia had you read?

    For our money and your credits. 13 Gigaroubles in gold. And with your style of war it was a waste of lifes and money.
    Continue war (even victoriouse) meant transforming Russia in British-French colony, and separate peace allow us to crush British Empire, and after next war - became one of two superpowers.
     
  9. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Ok. Let's talk about new Septic law about anti-European sanctions.
    Does it mean, that this sanctions are not only anti-German, but also anti-Ukrainian? As I understand, now it is not allowed to any european companies repair or modernise Ukro and Polish pipes, becouse its used for transporting of Russian gas.
     
  10. If you don't know the reference you only need to say.
    A surrendered nation that pretty much (lots of other factors) started it.
    More paranoia. You never 'crushed' the British Empire. You fought on one main front (a very big one) against your former allies whilst we fought a global (world) war. As before, no global empire built on trade can successfully weather two world wars
     
  11. There are fringe benefits to both KGB and YarS. On a number of occasions I have had to look up and find out new areas of history (to me) to counter complete and utter rubbish they post. And so by default they have been the driving force in my education.

    But beyond that they are a complete waste of rations.
     
  12. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

  13. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    It was good for Ukraine, it will be good for USA.
     
  14. It is good for Russia too.

    [​IMG]