How will the Ukraine war end?

How will the Ukraine war end?

  • Rebels win,Eastern Ukraine goes independent

    Votes: 85 49.7%
  • Putin invades Kiev, NATO doesn't move

    Votes: 47 27.5%
  • Putin invades Kiev, NATO fights Russia

    Votes: 10 5.8%
  • Rebels lose, Ukraine stays united

    Votes: 29 17.0%

  • Total voters
    171

YarS

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Yep, but the latter won't happen until Crimea is free
Crimea is free.
The Russian members?
Did they said it?

What is the reality rather than the spin?
This law was accepted by Rada (Ukrainian parody on Parliament) by Sep, 5. It was published in the official Rada's newspaper today.
Про освіту - Голос України

Maybe, but two years in a penal colony?
Very merciful (may be, too merciful). Two years of usual penal colony it is not a sanatory, but something close to it. He have good chances to survive there. Five year of gold or uranium mines would be better.
Spreading sedition. Like you do about Catalonia?
Sure. Catalonians have a right to fight for their freedom, Spain have right to fight for union of their country.
 

YarS

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On ROPs
And what do you think is the problem with the law?
I know, that from your point of view there are no any problem - Russians (including living in Ukraine, Baltic states, another countries) are not humans, so violation of their rights is not violation of human rights. Even Poles and Hungarian are not "real human" for you, so it is not a problem.
From my personal point of view there are two main problems:
1. Restriction on the education in foreign languages (first of all - Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian).
2. Falling of quality of education, that mean falling of quality of cheap Ukrainian workforce.

Really this law is just another (from many) confirmation of "ultra-nationalistic" "state" policy and discrimination of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.
 
"YarS, post: 8152987, member: 132226"]I know,
No you don't know.

that from your point of view there are no any problem - Russians (including living in Ukraine, Baltic states, another countries) are not humans, so violation of their rights is not violation of human rights. Even Poles and Hungarian are not "real human" for you, so it is not a problem.
You're wrong. I don't consider them, even Russians, not human. You may be projecting your own views


From my personal point of view there are two main problems:
1. Restriction on the education in foreign languages (first of all - Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian).
2. Falling of quality of education, that mean falling of quality of cheap Ukrainian workforce.
Really this law is just another (from many) confirmation of "ultra-nationalistic" "state" policy and discrimination of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.
How is it discrimination? It's ensuring that education is in Ukrainian. As per my previous post, as an example the teaching in state schools in the minority Hungarian Zakarpat region is all in Hungarian, the result being they can't pass entrance exams into Ukrainian universities because they didn't know the language. And there are no Hungarian language Universities in Ukraine. They were effectively disadvantaging themselves. The law doesn't stop them using Hungarian in their daily life.

So in state schools, why not teach in Ukrainian?

According to this, there are 6 - 8 million Ukrainians in Russia.

Ukrainians in Russia - Wikipedia

Are there any state schools in Russia where the teaching is in Ukrainian?

As an aside, in Kyiv you can learn Russian Russian and Ukrainian Language School | Learn the Language in Kiev, Ukraine | EchoEE.com

All you're doing is re-iterating the faux outrage put out by the Kremlin and others for political purposes.
 
(...) According to this, there are 6 - 8 million Ukrainians in Russia.

Ukrainians in Russia - Wikipedia (...)
That article is talking about Ukrainian refugees and workers in Russia, not ethnic Ukrainians in general. Here's the exact quote.
There are almost 6(-8 ) mln Ukrainian refugees and workers in Russia , around 1 bn $/€ of revenue sent back at home.
These people will primarily be in Russia to work, so the education question doesn't really arise. Very large numbers of Ukrainians have emigrated to Russia, either permanently or temporarily, because the standard of living in Russia is much higher, and the cultural barriers are very low. This migration has played a large part in the rapid decline of population in Ukraine over the past couple of decades (basically since 1990).

Your article however notes that Ukrainians in Russia are closely integrated into society there, often marry Russians, and are often registered as being ethnically Russian. @KGB_resident may be able to offer insight into whether the latter may be driven by Russian immigration law giving preference to ethnic Russians (versus say Central Asian Turkic people) returning to Russia as a legacy of the breakup of the Soviet Union.


About the new language law itself, I have to say it bodes ill for the future of Ukraine as according to the news stories that I've read it applies to the large Russian speaking Ukrainian population, not just the Hungarian, Polish, and Romanian minorities.

In Canada if we tried imposing that on the Francophone population here I can guaranty that we would end up with a civil war. This issue was in fact one of the primary provocations behind the Red River Rebellion in Manitoba, which we had to send in the army to crush, and then end up reversing ourselves on anyway. However that initial mistake left a very sour political legacy which has lasted to this day.

I don't think that anyone who doesn't live in a bilingual country can truly understand just how dangerous this development is for the future unity of Ukraine.
 
By the way: ISIS and UkrSt are brothers in the arms
More agitprop. I bet if you saw someone wearing Reebok trainers you'd think they were British :rolleyes:
 
Your article however notes that Ukrainians in Russia are closely integrated into society there, often marry Russians, (1) and are often registered as being ethnically Russian. @KGB_resident may be able to offer insight into whether the latter may be driven by (2) Russian immigration law giving preference to ethnic Russians (versus say Central Asian Turkic people) returning to Russia as a legacy of the breakup of the Soviet Union.
1. There is no such thing in Russia as registrations of ethnical identity. Soviet passport contained 5th point - ethnicity identity (Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish, Tatar and so on) but modern Russian passport and other official documents are voided of such a point.
2. As I'm aware Russian immigration law doesn't contain any mention of ethnical identity.
 
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1. There is no such thing in Russia as registrations of ethnical identity. Soviet passport contained 5th point - ethnicity identity (Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish, Tatar and so on) but modern Russian passport and other official documents are voided such a point.
2. As I'm aware Russian immigration law doesn't contain any mention of ethnical identity.
Are questions about that in the census? Here (Ontario Canada) you are asked questions such as if you are Catholic, because that determines school tax allocation, and what language you speak at home (important if it is English or French when it comes to provision of government services in your region).
 

YarS

On ROPS
On ROPs
How is it discrimination? It's ensuring that education is in Ukrainian. As per my previous post, as an example the teaching in state schools in the minority Hungarian Zakarpat region is all in Hungarian, the result being they can't pass entrance exams into Ukrainian universities because they didn't know the language.
As for me (and Russian laws of education) parents of children are those, who can choose in what language education should to be. May be, ethnic Hungarians preffer to educate in Hungarian universities.
And there are no Hungarian language Universities in Ukraine.
I can say more. There are no Ukrainian universities in Ukraine. Real language of science (except some social "sciences") is Russian. Ukrainian nationalists preffer to solve this problem radically - by finishing science in universities and schools. And yes, in new education law amount of obligatory school subjects is decreased from 22 to 9. Now physics, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics and some other subjects are not obligatory. Ignorance is a soil for radicalism and terrorism, you know.
They were effectively disadvantaging themselves. The law doesn't stop them using Hungarian in their daily life.
There are other laws and practices that targeted on "Ukrainisation" of daily life.
So in state schools, why not teach in Ukrainian?
In Russia and other free world countries it's a choice of parents, on what language does they preffer to educate their children.
Are there any state schools in Russia where the teaching is in Ukrainian?
Yes, there are 7 or 8 schools with Ukrainian language of education.
Ukrainian is not very popular in Russia. Even most of ethnic Ukrainians, even in Ukraine preffer to use Russian or Surjic in daily life.
 

YarS

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I don't think that anyone who doesn't live in a bilingual country can truly understand just how dangerous this development is for the future unity of Ukraine.
But Ukrainians understand. Banderlogs don't want peace in Ukraine - they need war. They hope, that with NATO help they will be able to win this war and kill, explel or evict all Russians. I think, that NATO really want same and want ethnic cleanings in Ukraine, provided by hands of Ukrainian radicals and after starting of the full-scale civil war - by the regular Ukrainian Army.
 

YarS

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Ok guys, who wants his children learned Shakespeare in Cockney translation, like:

"Push an' shove butcher hooks not wiv da eyes, but wiv da mind, an'therefawer is winged Cupid pain'ed bacon rind."
 
And yes, @scalieback , how many Cockney or Australian schools are in London?
If you don't understand the difference between an accent and a language, you only need to say.

Cockney isn't a good example either, geordie would be better
 

YarS

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On ROPs
If you don't understand the difference between an accent and a language, you only need to say.
Tnx. Of course I know difference between "language", "dialect" and "accent". It's from "fuzzy logic", border is not strict, and usually is politically motivated. Usually Cockney is determined as "dialect"
Cockney isn't a good example either, geordie would be better
As you wish. Question is still active - "How many schools with education in Geordie are in London"?
 
Tnx. Of course I know difference between "language", "dialect" and "accent". It's from "fuzzy logic", border is not strict, and usually is politically motivated. Usually Cockney is determined as "dialect"
Cockney isn't a dialect, it's an accent.
As you wish. Question is still active - "How many schools with education in Geordie are in London"?
None, they speak English with an accent, which can be difficult to understand unless you are used to it. Occasional words are different but they do speak English. It would be a very broad brush to call Geordie a dialect imo.

The reason for saying Geordie is because cockney is predominant in London. Anyway, the point still stands, schools learn English and pupils (and teachers) have regional accents but you're not taught 'mucker' or 'mate' in London or 'marra' in Newcastle. You're taught English or 'friend'.

How many schools in Russia with education in Ukrainian? Or Hungarian? Or Rumanian? Or Chinese (either Manadarin or Cantonese)?
 

YarS

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Cockney isn't a dialect, it's an accent.
That's what I mean, talking about "fuzzy logic". Authors of Wikipedia wrote:

"Linguistically, cockney English refers to the accent or dialect of English traditionally spoken by working-class Londoners. "


None, they speak English with an accent, which can be difficult to understand unless you are used to it. Occasional words are different but they do speak English. It would be a very broad brush to call Geordie a dialect imo.
So is Ukrainian. "Arm" is "arm" (ruka), "leg" is "leg" (noga), but "arse" is "ass" ("jopa" is "dupa"). For most of Russians Ukrainian is understandable, but funny.

How many schools in Russia with education in Ukrainian?
Seven or eight.

Or Hungarian? Or Rumanian? Or Chinese (either Manadarin or Cantonese)?
We have a little amount of them in Russia, and this languages are not neighter "official", nor "state" languages. There are 174 languages used in Russia, 35 are "official" and 15 are "state" languages (from 14 language families). Parents can demand education in any "official" language in subject of Federation.
 

YarS

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On ROPs
For Russians "Freedom of thinking" means, first of all, possibility to learn his own of foreign language. "Think different" does not mean "Buy Apple© production", but "Learn different languages and read different books".
That's why we think, that Septics and Underseptics live in the worst kind of slavery - "Mental slavery".
 

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