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How was this fair? Out of pocket for not being furloughed..

Daz

LE
What's 'bogus self employment'?
A problem in the agency game amongst others - a quick example is an LGV truck driver registered with an agency, the agency finds the work, he turns up and falls under the supervision, direction and control of the client, so he takes the truck where he's told to take it, what time to take, what filling station to use etc

Clearly, he's not self-employed as he's not sourced the work himself, he's always under the supervision, direction and control of someone else - however, for payroll, he is self-employed for tax purposes using various schemes over the years, this enables both parties to avoid paying certain taxes, and depending on the scheme the driver, in this case, to "pay" himself via dividends to avoid paying NI, some schemes registered the "self-employed" person in places like the Cayman Islands

Older "Umbrella" schemes/scams used to encourage the frankly false claiming of "exemptions" to claim mileage, food etc to inflate a persons pay
 

MR_R_SOLE

Old-Salt
A problem in the agency game amongst others - a quick example is an LGV truck driver registered with an agency, the agency finds the work, he turns up and falls under the supervision, direction and control of the client, so he takes the truck where he's told to take it, what time to take, what filling station to use etc

Clearly, he's not self-employed as he's not sourced the work himself, he's always under the supervision, direction and control of someone else - however, for payroll, he is self-employed for tax purposes using various schemes over the years, this enables both parties to avoid paying certain taxes, and depending on the scheme the driver, in this case, to "pay" himself via dividends to avoid paying NI, some schemes registered the "self-employed" person in places like the Cayman Islands

Older "Umbrella" schemes/scams used to encourage the frankly false claiming of "exemptions" to claim mileage, food etc to inflate a persons pay


Very well put.
However Agencys do serve a purpose.
I know several tradesmen who are semi retired and use agencys to find a few months work each year to pay for the holidays.
I've employed agency staff also when I've needed a hand for a few weeks but not had the flow of work to take on another PAYE employee. They earn higher than normal pay due to the instability of being and agency worker.
Also its worth mentioning that Agency workers are easier for cash flow as the agency pays thier wages ( Usallay weekly) and the client gets 90 day terms on the agencys invoice. So if waiting on stage payments it can be easier to just float and Agency worker for a month and pay the Agceby once a payments been received.

Kindset regards
MR_R_SOLE.
 

Daz

LE
Very well put.
However Agencys do serve a purpose.
I know several tradesmen who are semi retired and use agencys to find a few months work each year to pay for the holidays.
I've employed agency staff also when I've needed a hand for a few weeks but not had the flow of work to take on another PAYE employee. They earn higher than normal pay due to the instability of being and agency worker.
Also its worth mentioning that Agency workers are easier for cash flow as the agency pays thier wages ( Usallay weekly) and the client gets 90 day terms on the agencys invoice. So if waiting on stage payments it can be easier to just float and Agency worker for a month and pay the Agceby once a payments been received.

Kindset regards
MR_R_SOLE.
Agencies themselves are not a problem if they are run legally, however, there's a fair few out there that skirted, if not outright overstepped the line in regards to disguised self-employment over the years using various products supplied by providers such as Contrella and Anderson Group. But that's not the only sector by any stretch of the imagination,

Here an example from 2009, this time the workers were car valeters
Sham contracts: Contractors were disguised employees, says appeal court (contractoruk.com)
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
He's either not been self employed for a year, or he's not submitted a profit on his tax returns, if he does them; in effect not paying tax.

I can't think of any other reasons.
I've been self employed for 14 months.

We had work in the book then the merchants closed, despite being told that construction can stay open. It was obviously easier for them to not have to pay their staff, I can't of any other reason

We had a bit of material in stock, but when customers won't let you into their house to finish a job, or start a new one that's been agreed, it's pointless.

As a result of the merchants closing, simple things like cement and plasterboard were being sold at extortionate rates by third parties. £40 for an 8x4 plasterboard and £20 for a 25k bag of cement. Even if we were stupid enough to pay those prices it couldn't be passed onto a customer. It's a moot point anyway as there was no sand for the cement and no plaster for the boards.

Through no fault of my own, hard working blokes like myself were knackered at every turn.

I've never moaned about my situation, but as I've said, those that did okay won't get my sympathy if they gripe.
 
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I've been self employed for 14 months.

We had work in the book then the merchants closed, despite being told that construction can stay open. It was obviously easier for them to not have to their staff, I can't of any other reason

We had a bit of material in stock, but when customers won't let you into their house to finish a job, or start a new one that's been agreed, it's pointless.

As a result of the merchants closing, simple things like cement and plasterboard were being sold at extortionate rates by third parties. £40 for an 8x4 plasterboard and £20 for a 25k bag of cement. Even if we were stupid enough to pay those prices it couldn't be passed onto a customer. It's a moot point anyway as there was no sand for the cement and no plaster for the boards.

Through no fault of my own, hard working blokes like myself were knackered at every turn.

I've never moaned about my situation, but as I've said, those that did okay won't get my sympathy if they gripe.

Yes, and I actually remember hearing about some of that stuff; bags of plaster going for silly prices and the like.

Apologies for knee-jerking to the worst conclusion in that particular post.
 
It's a good job the press doesn't trawl Arrse for stories, or your Acting Deputy Director might find her name in lights in the press for breaking the rules...

Would that be the acting deputy director of border force who traveled south from Newcastle during the height of the pandemic and did not wear a mask when interacting with juniors face to face.

It truly would be bothersome if the press found out about the acting deputy director of border forces abuse of authority and flouting of the pandemic rules.
 
I've been self employed for 14 months.

We had work in the book then the merchants closed, despite being told that construction can stay open. It was obviously easier for them to not have to pay their staff, I can't of any other reason

We had a bit of material in stock, but when customers won't let you into their house to finish a job, or start a new one that's been agreed, it's pointless.

As a result of the merchants closing, simple things like cement and plasterboard were being sold at extortionate rates by third parties. £40 for an 8x4 plasterboard and £20 for a 25k bag of cement. Even if we were stupid enough to pay those prices it couldn't be passed onto a customer. It's a moot point anyway as there was no sand for the cement and no plaster for the boards.

Through no fault of my own, hard working blokes like myself were knackered at every turn.

I've never moaned about my situation, but as I've said, those that did okay won't get my sympathy if they gripe.

Not gonna help you, but the view this side of the pond is that it is business as usual for contractors and subbie's. Timber has gone up in price by around 30% - 40%, but other than that it seems pretty stable - bear in mind though that it is all timber frame construction here.

I know you ain't moaning, but I feel for you and all the others who have been adversely affected.
 
Does anyone know if agencies are going out of business because of furlough rules? No temps needed, so no agency fees.

A scam I was witnessing a few years back was a company would pay an agency for 12 staff for example. The agency supplies the 12, but the DWP come along and offered to pay the wages of a dole-ite (in this case a "former" drug-addict who is on methadone) if they gave him work. The agency get twelve payments but only paid eleven as one would lose out.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Not gonna help you, but the view this side of the pond is that it is business as usual for contractors and subbie's. Timber has gone up in price by around 30% - 40%, but other than that it seems pretty stable - bear in mind though that it is all timber frame construction here.

I know you ain't moaning, but I feel for you and all the others who have been adversely affected.
Appreciate that old boy. We're back on the tools now, so life is good. I'll be back on two wheels, the love of my life, in the spring. Huzzah!
 
Appreciate that old boy. We're back on the tools now, so life is good. I'll be back on two wheels, the love of my life, in the spring. Huzzah!

Glad to hear that about work, and the bike.

Decided what bike you're getting yet?
 
It's a good job the press doesn't trawl Arrse for stories, or your Acting Deputy Director might find her name in lights in the press for breaking the rules...
She deserves sacking, twice she came down to us, despite the restrictions
 
Agreed, however there are decent businesses that are hugely struggling, I know a lot are entitled to payments to help, but it's not enough, there are people who were even worse off than I am, if the Government hadn't stepped in, giving temporary measures making it illegal to evict renters who couldn't pay, they'd be on the streets and now those measures have been lifted they still may be.

There are people who have made some great job choices, a friend of main is well paid, working for a huge company in IT and is one of forty that have been laid off.

Those that are in employment who got at least some money, are in a great position given the circumstances and should think themselves very lucky, not whinge about it.

Covid 19 has destroyed people's lives through zero fault of their own.
From the very beginning up to now I’ve knocked 100 quid off the rent of my second house, because my tenant is on furlough. Yes it means I’m out of pocket each month, but she needs it more than me
 
Would that be the acting deputy director of border force who traveled south from Newcastle during the height of the pandemic and did not wear a mask when interacting with juniors face to face.

It truly would be bothersome if the press found out about the acting deputy director of border forces abuse of authority and flouting of the pandemic rules.
Yep, the very same. One to one meetings. All could have been done by Skype
 
Yep, the very same. One to one meetings. All could have been done by Skype
I've done a quick google, can't find the person. Name the name please? Just in case any journo is reading this and looking for a story.
 
Why weren’t you entitled to anything?
And why weren't the sites operating? The construction side of my job barely paused for breath apart form the early days of the first locakdown when everyne was trying to establish a safe way to work.
 
Ah apologies to all. My googlefu hasn't deserted me after all.

The travelling person referred to above is one Ms I Hall. Allegedly.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
I smell socialism and Creole considering it's in the south west.
Only one saalution (propper job). A dual of banjo's. Oooaarrr.
Would that be the acting deputy director of border force who traveled south from Newcastle during the height of the pandemic and did not wear a mask when interacting with juniors face to face.

It truly would be bothersome if the press found out about the acting deputy director of border forces abuse of authority and flouting of the pandemic rules.
That wouldn't be Irene Hall of Teeside University would it ?
You'd have thought that Ashington High School would have instilled the value if following rules, especially when they're for public safety.

If Irene Hall is the correct person,
her LinkedIn page says she's the Assistant Director, and has been for nearly thirteen years.
Would that make it ok to break travel restrictions on at least more than one occasion and flout government guidelines on masks ?

Not my part of the world, but I imagine a journo could find out if this was the correct Irene Hall of the Border Force ignoring the rules or if it was a different Acting Deputy Director who broke them.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
And why weren't the sites operating? The construction side of my job barely paused for breath apart form the early days of the first locakdown when everyne was trying to establish a safe way to work.
The smaller sites in Lincoln closed during the first (proper) lockdown because all the Builders Merchants closed. No reason why they closed, they were allowed to stay open, all construction was allowed to continue, it was listed as a specific industry that could crack on.

As Toyah would try to say, its a mystery.
 
Ive been working from home since day one i would do anything to get back into the office but with my trashed health I have been very bluntly told by the doctors that if I catch CV19 I’m dead no ifs or buts about it. I’ve broken the imposed lock down twice once to be with my dying mother and the second to see cremate her and nothing in this world would have stopped me going to her. Mental health is well and truly fucked at the moment the man up and get a grip lasted the first four month then I most definitely lost the plot thankfully my combat medic daughter was home and spotted that I was going to flip out and soon had a doctor on the line. My son lost his job no sorry two jobs the poor sod was mortified as the first was tied in with his PHD. Thankfully some one spotted a PHD geek that has a zoned in interest in immunobiology and he is now working flat out and earning a fortune. The wife worked through it as she was classed as essential why is beyond me she has had a huge bonus of wait for it £100 the fact she almost worked her self to death is either here or there. So far three of the lads that are or sorry were in the support group for my health condition are sadly dead why simple the did not follow the bloody instructions zero sympathy for them good lads and massively switched on but in the end they thought they were bulletproof proof big big fail.
 
From the very beginning up to now I’ve knocked 100 quid off the rent of my second house, because my tenant is on furlough. Yes it means I’m out of pocket each month, but she needs it more than me
If that means you keep a decent tenant long term it's probably worth it from a monetary view as well as being the decent thing to do.
 

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