How to "save" the NHS

Grownup_Rafbrat

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Mbongwe

War Hero
It's worked so well with smoking, cirrhosis, obesity, heart disease ...
Using that logic I take it you're in favour of legalising crack cocaine and heroin? We taxpayers end up paying for the outcomes, so we wouldn't be worse off trying to prevent it.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

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Using that logic I take it you're in favour of legalising crack cocaine and heroin? We taxpayers end up paying for the outcomes, so we wouldn't be worse off trying to prevent it.
In the 1960s, addicts got their fix free from the chemist. Hence no crime to fund it, clean needles, and a sort of control of the addiction.

Then someone decided this cost too much, and now we are where we are.

So yes, I would legalise it, but not in the way your question suggests, Beth/Laura.
 

Mbongwe

War Hero
Beth/Laura.
Not at all trying to set you up, more highlighting the absurdity in your argument. There are things in life that we must try to prevent in order to stop further (expensive) damage down the line. Shrugging your shoulders and disavowing yourself of preventative measures is not something I believe is morally or practically correct.
 
As I said, NI isn't all about the NHS, it's largely about other benefits. A problem with transferring costs to the private sector via insurance, direct payment, or the like is that it often just shuffles the payments around but doesn't really effect any marked savings to the consumer. It can also lead to greater inequity in healthcare.

Where’s your proof?

Why are you asking me? You said that the Australian Govt "encourages" high-income earners to take out private insurance and go private for their medical needs. So where's this money coming from and where would it come from if the govt simply bumped up the tax/NI/whatever and paid for services that way?

Across the developed world, there are two extremes of healthcare funding; taxation funded free at the point of use and public sector in the UK and entirely insured, paid for at the point of use and near entirely private sector in the USA. No-one sane would argue that either leads the world in terms of quality, value universal healthcare.

What would a sane person argue when looking at statistics?


Possibly the UK is near the top of the table and consistently ahead of the USA - and even ahead of Australia in the LPI ranking?

CountryLPI 2020 Ranking LPI 2019 RankingCEO World Ranking2022 Population
Denmark1235,882,261
Norway21155,434,319
Switzerland33188,740,472
Sweden442810,549,347
Finland55125,540,745
Netherlands661117,564,014
New Zealand77165,185,288
Germany881783,369,843
Luxembourg99647,599
Austria101248,939,617
Iceland111441372,899
Ireland1211805,023,109
United Kingdom13101067,508,936
Canada14132338,454,327
Singapore1516245,975,689
Australia1617626,177,413
Hong Kong1715367,488,865
United States181830338,289,857
Japan19195123,951,692
Taiwan2022223,893,394
Estonia2121321,326,062
France2220764,626,628
Belgium2323911,655,930
Spain2425847,558,630
 

TractorStats

War Hero
Tackling food waste in the patient catering chain is a tricky one to handle, given that it's difficult to predict how much an ill person will eat.

Many patients will be nutritionally-compromised, some patients cannot swallow solids / need certain textures, then pregnant women are advised against certain foods, old people are often advised against egg products / mayonnaise etc...
Among my dubious array of random qualifications I have one at Level 1 Catering and Hospitality (NVQ).

I therefore have a a certificate to say I know how to cook a chicken breast and not kill an elderly person by giving them Listeria with their lunch. Somebody slightly more qualified than me should therefore be able to predict with a reasonable level of error what quantity of food will be required given the current type of patients occupying beds in hospital. The private sector would never cook 100 chicken breasts and throw 25 away.
 
Unless you're trying to prevent something we know will in all likeliness happen in certain circumstances
"Got a cough? It's probably nothing, but might be lung cancer, see your GP." as one recent advert goes.
How much time, effort and money is wasted confirming it actually is nothing, not lung cancer?
Treat those who are injured or sick, not those who might be.
Isn't that basic triage?
 

Mbongwe

War Hero
Among my dubious array of random qualifications I have one at Level 1 Catering and Hospitality (NVQ).

I therefore have a a certificate to say I know how to cook a chicken breast and not kill an elderly person by giving them Listeria with their lunch. Somebody slightly more qualified than me should therefore be able to predict with a reasonable level of error what quantity of food will be required given the current type of patients occupying beds in hospital. The private sector would never cook 100 chicken breasts and throw 25 away.
Someone with a bit more than a Level 1 should be able to make accurate forecasts that billion-pound PLCs including Sodexo and Serco can't, despite it being in said PLCs' best interests to not waste food that they have purchased?...

Edited to better reflect the scenario.
 
"Got a cough? It's probably nothing, but might be lung cancer, see your GP." as one recent advert goes.
How much time, effort and money is wasted confirming it actually is nothing, not lung cancer?
Treat those who are injured or sick, not those who might be.
Isn't that basic triage?
Who does the triage?
Did you watch Hannah Fry's recent programme about cancer treatments?
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
That and the fact that GP surgeries are nearly impossible to access so everyone is just going to A&E because they cant get treatment for things that they would have gone to the GP for. I know there are time wasters who go to A&E but most people are in pain and are ill in some form.

In my view a big reform for the NHS would be shut down all GP surgeries as they aren't really open anyway in most cases. Cancel all the GP contracts and directly employ GPs at 24 hours walk in places in towns and at an A&E triage centre at every hospital. Having a family doctor is a myth anyway. Nobody now sees the same GP twice nowadays. That way no GP waiting for an appointment, no clogging up A&E with people that don't need to be there. Also saves multiple referrals. If you saw a GP at the hospital and needed bloods or a scan get it done there and then come back and see the GP. In London a lot of people cant get on a GP list so they just always go to A&E. Its the reality anyway so lets deal with it.

Add to that a resurrected District nurse service in the community for retired nurses who have left the profession but who have skills to see chronically sick people and just keep an eye on meds, condition any arising issues. Saves a lot of GP visits too.
Contrary to what your MSM type post general practice is seeing more with much less. Through the pandemic practices saw much more people as hospitals saw much less. We saw and are seeing over a million people a day in general practice.
If GPs were directly employed and referring directly for scans what would happen to people in ED? You’ve just put more people at hospitals than have ever been there.
Resurrection of district nurses? What do you think district nurses do? Why do you think retired nurses want to come back?
As more GPs leave on a daily basis and suicides much more common the government has to take some responsibility and actually do something or there’ll be no general practice. There’s many GPs handing contracts back and there’s nobody left to do the work.
 
Among my dubious array of random qualifications I have one at Level 1 Catering and Hospitality (NVQ).

I therefore have a a certificate to say I know how to cook a chicken breast and not kill an elderly person by giving them Listeria with their lunch. Somebody slightly more qualified than me should therefore be able to predict with a reasonable level of error what quantity of food will be required given the current type of patients occupying beds in hospital. The private sector would never cook 100 chicken breasts and throw 25 away.
Anthony Bourdain disagreed with that enough to be part of a documentary which highlighted huge food waste within the private sector.
 

rmn

LE
Among my dubious array of random qualifications I have one at Level 1 Catering and Hospitality (NVQ).

I therefore have a a certificate to say I know how to cook a chicken breast and not kill an elderly person by giving them Listeria with their lunch. Somebody slightly more qualified than me should therefore be able to predict with a reasonable level of error what quantity of food will be required given the current type of patients occupying beds in hospital. The private sector would never cook 100 chicken breasts and throw 25 away.
Bear in mind that although the requests from a ward will go into the kitchen early in the day, patients have a habit of being admitted and dscharged throughout the day thus buggering up the figures.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
They could save a fortune by binning all the " preventive" stuff and just deal with actual, current, injuries and diseases.
That would mean lots of diabetics having amputations like they used to have. Costs then ramp up. Prevention saves greater costs as people may never need hospitals
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
"Got a cough? It's probably nothing, but might be lung cancer, see your GP." as one recent advert goes.
How much time, effort and money is wasted confirming it actually is nothing, not lung cancer?
Treat those who are injured or sick, not those who might be.
Isn't that basic triage?
I refer you for a cough, you have an x Ray and it’s not cancer that’s great.
I don’t refer you, you’ve got lung cancer, you go to hospital, you need surgery, you need treatment and it costs lots but you still die.
I refer you, it’s caught early, you’re treated and survive, what to do?
 

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