How to "save" the NHS

TractorStats

War Hero
I know that food has a lot of rules around it, and that there are stiff penalties for breaching these rules but the level of food waste that I saw, time after time, whilst I worked there made me just that little bit more outraged and sad each passing day.
James Martin (the TV chef) did a programme at Scarborough hospital which is my parent's local hospital that was quite revealing on that score. One particularly shocking bit I remember was whole cooked chicken breasts being thrown away after lunch. He worked out how much waste that was in money terms per week/month/year and asked the kitchen staff why they weren't budgeting properly and just working out how many portions to cook as the money saved could be used to treat people.

The answer came back was along the lines of: "because we always cook that many".
 
Folks, can anyone offer up real world personal examples of NHS mismanagement or waste for example?
For example; back when I was sparking, my company was working on a NHS contract at a large 'jewel in the crown' type of hospital in London.
I know that food has a lot of rules around it, and that there are stiff penalties for breaching these rules but the level of food waste that I saw, time after time, whilst I worked there made me just that little bit more outraged and sad each passing day.
Cages of sandwiches, fruit, cake type bars were chucked each day.
Why couldn't this be handed over to the homeless I though.
After all, genuinely hungry people wouldn't care if a sandwich was a day out of date.
Fish type sarnies excluded obviously!
This is 20 odd years ago, I had a casual job driving for the NHS. I was quite friendly with the pathology supplies team at one of the hospitals I covered.
Due to a mistake in ordering the orange and yellow sharps bins, instead of approximately 8inch high bins, a load of bins about 2 feet high and about 18 inches across appeared.
The paperwork to return these bins was so onerous, that I was asked to make them disappear. Now I appreciate that in the great scheme of things it isn't very significant, but the amount bureaucracy was baffling.
Some are still in use as bird food bins......
 
Folks, can anyone offer up real world personal examples of NHS mismanagement or waste for example?
For example; back when I was sparking, my company was working on a NHS contract at a large 'jewel in the crown' type of hospital in London.
I know that food has a lot of rules around it, and that there are stiff penalties for breaching these rules but the level of food waste that I saw, time after time, whilst I worked there made me just that little bit more outraged and sad each passing day.
Cages of sandwiches, fruit, cake type bars were chucked each day.
Why couldn't this be handed over to the homeless I though.
After all, genuinely hungry people wouldn't care if a sandwich was a day out of date.
Fish type sarnies excluded obviously!
Some 20 years back I was working training NHS logistics people at a county main hospital. It was just after CJD was discovered.
Previously the stores team would issue stainless steel instruments to sugeries,laid out on trays so the surgery nurse/ surgeon could use, then the lot would be autoclaved for re use.
CJD showed autoclaving didn't kill it, so stores had to move to disposeable instruments, which came pre packed as sets on sealed trays. If only one item in a tray got used, the entire tray contents got binned as contaminated.
Megabucks.
 

Tyk

LE
It's entirely possible to put the NHS on a professional medical service footing which would vastly improve service, cut waiting lists and save an absurd quantity of cash. It wouldn't be easy or quick or cheap, but it's doable and the subsequent benefits realised would be major.

That said there is NO appetite from the political types to deal with the inevitable fallout and accusations:-
Privatisation (see Corbyns groundless bollards at the last GE)
Job losses and dealing with the Unions (100-250k gone is highly likely).
GP's being forced to provide surgeries like the past - not going to fly
Golden parachutes for the rafts of executives booted.
Endless tribunals.
Endless public enquiries.
Endless calls for Judicial enquiries.
Diversity and inclusion howling from the rooftops (as they're dragged out and handed their P45's).
Endless press howling.
The NHS is a religious icon types totally losing their minds.
"Social Media" exploding.
 
Some 20 years back I was working training NHS logistics people at a county main hospital. It was just after CJD was discovered.
Previously the stores team would issue stainless steel instruments to sugeries,laid out on trays so the surgery nurse/ surgeon could use, then the lot would be autoclaved for re use.
CJD showed autoclaving didn't kill it, so stores had to move to disposeable instruments, which came pre packed as sets on sealed trays. If only one item in a tray got used, the entire tray contents got binned as contaminated.
Megabucks.
I wanna see how much the covid ppe bill comes to. Wasn't tons of unused ppe destroyed recently?
 
Folks, can anyone offer up real world personal examples of NHS mismanagement or waste for example?

While this is it only anecdotal a few weeks ago I had four interviews with 2 with nurses, one with the anaesthetist and one with the surgeon, while waiting to go into theatre to have my Gall Bladder ripped out. All went through the same questionnaire i had previously filled in with the consultant months back.

Now seeing the anaesthetist and surgeon, makes sense. Why however twice with two differing nurses. Nothing would have changed in the 20 mins, between nurse 1, the anaesthetist the surgeon and then nurse 2 and then being wheeled into surgery.

Now of course my observation is trivial in the big picture, however times that by however many patients in for day surgery that day. So is the NHS short of nursing staff or is unable to effectively manage personnel.

Much like the on one hand there is an obesity epidemic and on the other food banks, it is possible for both conditions to exist but then any discussion is both political in nature and carried out by Zealots Vs Heretics, that drowned out sensible problem solving.
 
So how do we fix it? Can't keep throwing money at it.
What has been found in Ireland is as follows: with regard to ambulances waiting endlessly outside hospitals, they cannot unload if the hospital doesnt accept them. If the patient isnt actively dying, then the ambulance crew has to wait until a slot appears and the punter can be accepted and the crew can get their gurney back and rejoin the fray. Once the punter is accepted, they wait for treatment, eventually get seen to and shifted to a ward or a corridor. Once they are well enough to be sent a recovery facility, a problem arises. All public recovery facilities are full, more or less all the time, so the unfortunate punter is kept in hospital and gets labelled a "bedblocker", so the system quickly blocks up. You need more recovery locations.......
Next, you need to stop training doctors and nurses and techs for export. It costs millions and all it does is drain the system of the people who are at the coalface. While it's good for a trained professional to get experience abroad, you need to impose a minimum service contract of at least three years post qualification public service in a public hospital, otherwise you pay the State back for your training. You also need to impose real world rosters and contracts so that the abovementioned staff get proper shifts, proper time off and no bullying from administrators or consultants to work late/work for free/work extra shifts.
Next: insist on the use of intermediate care public health centres, if you can't get on a GP list. Hit your thumb with a hammer outside of normal hours? if your GP can't see you, get over to an intermediate centre and stay away from A and E as much as possible.
Next: ambulance crews deal with an inordinate amount of alcohol and drug related accidents and incidents. Deal with them and then empty their pockets; get drunk in public and cause trouble and require an ambulance? Seize their assets to pay for it. In the cold light of day, anyone with a grain of sense will cop on when they realise that a drunken fight will get them stripped of their assets/locked up/lien put on their income.
 
I wanna see how much the covid ppe bill comes to. Wasn't tons of unused ppe destroyed recently?
I'll give you a clue. The airline I work for made highly publicised flights from Dublin to China to collect PPE. Each trip burned 100 tons of fuel to shift 15 tons of PPE, which is essentially paper and plastic. We made something like 70 flights. The Govt gave us Eu 7M towards the costs, which wasn't enough.
 

TractorStats

War Hero
While this is it only anecdotal a few weeks ago I had four interviews with 2 with nurses, one with the anaesthetist and one with the surgeon, while waiting to go into theatre to have my Gall Bladder ripped out. All went through the same questionnaire i had previously filled in with the consultant months back.

Now seeing the anaesthetist and surgeon, makes sense. Why however twice with two differing nurses. Nothing would have changed in the 20 mins, between nurse 1, the anaesthetist the surgeon and then nurse 2 and then being wheeled into surgery.
I had exactly the same thing for my gall bladder OP. It doesn't take a genius to work out how to increase productivity by 25% with no loss in quality of care. Isn't that what NHS management should be doing - allocating resources efficiently, increasing productivity, increasing throughput?
 
Folks, can anyone offer up real world personal examples of NHS mismanagement or waste for example?
For example; back when I was sparking, my company was working on a NHS contract at a large 'jewel in the crown' type of hospital in London.
I know that food has a lot of rules around it, and that there are stiff penalties for breaching these rules but the level of food waste that I saw, time after time, whilst I worked there made me just that little bit more outraged and sad each passing day.
Cages of sandwiches, fruit, cake type bars were chucked each day.
Why couldn't this be handed over to the homeless I though.
After all, genuinely hungry people wouldn't care if a sandwich was a day out of date.
Fish type sarnies excluded obviously!
Homeless don't want food. They want money for their addictions.
If you gave them at out of date sandwich and the got ill, probably not from the said sandwich, they would try to sue the NHS
 
I doubt it has anything to do with the 1 Million plus we have allowed into the country, without derailing the thread or taking this thread off subject, it cannot be ignored that despite the money being thrown at the NHS, most of the planning has been based on legally resident population figures, which we now understand bore no relation to reality.

As with so many things sadly these days its the constant trying to fit quart into pint pot rather than address the actual issues.
1 million??? I wish it was that
 
I had exactly the same thing for my gall bladder OP. It doesn't take a genius to work out how to increase productivity by 25% with no loss in quality of care. Isn't that what NHS management should be doing - allocating resources efficiently, increasing productivity, increasing throughput?

I was thinking something similar the other day, about the telephone "ping-pong" that's involved in trying to see a GP. It wastes a lot of everybody's time. it would be quicker to just to see you ASAP and have done with it.
 
Homeless don't want food. They want money for their addictions.
If you gave them at out of date sandwich and the got ill, probably not from the said sandwich, they would try to sue the NHS
Unfortunately you are probably a lot more right than wrong mate.
 
So why is there suddenly a backlog in A&E, there wasn't one before CV19... it's like the NHS has had is pyrrhic victory, it managed to break itself.

There were no ambulances at all when I had my first cardiac. 2nd time was at the GP's, hour wait, left on the corridor on the trolley for 3 hours. 3rd time, called ambulance for knowing what was happening, 2 hour wait; in the ambulance outside my house for an hour before paramedic turns up, given morphine and sat waiting whilst I'm having the heart attack, then fcek knows again on a trolley, waiting.
Gawd bless NW Ambulance Trust, eh.
 

TractorStats

War Hero
I was thinking something similar the other day, about the telephone "ping-pong" that's involved in trying to see a GP. It wastes a lot of everybody's time. it would be quicker to just to see you ASAP and have done with it.
The frightening thing is that your experience goes all the way through the system. I had two years of that getting to the point I could get an MRI scan with I estimate 50 phone calls pushing it through the system myself as my GP had gone AWOL. When I eventually got one it was in a privately contracted scan suite in a truck parked outside the hospital. Just one consultant radiographer and one nurse and super efficient. The nurse apologised for being 15 minutes late getting me from the waiting room. I said not to worry as I had been waiting two years. The consultant radiographer literally his jaw dropped open in disbelief. Just think my experience and your experience multiplied millions of times. Think of all the man years of literally useless phone calls being passed around.
 
By far the biggest waste of NHS resources that I have ever seen was as a prison officer.
You knew full well that 99% of cons were faking it, but they still had to go to hospital in an ambulance, accompanied by two staff members.
NHS prison staff never sermed to work at the weekend!
 
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