How to "save" the NHS

Visa/immigration applicants have to pay a health surcharge when they apply for a visa of between £450 and £700 a year.

Have a “truly informative” - I didn’t know that.

However, this is an example of where the UK cuts its nose off to spite its face at times.

If say a Canadian vetinerary surgeon wanted to go and practice in the UK for 5 years with his wife, he needs a visa, and so does his wife. He needs to pay £624/yr for each. So that’s £6,240 on top of his application fees of £1,742 for himself and his wife. If she wants to work, she’ll need her own visa too. They still have to pay tax and NI on their wages when they arrive.

Knocking on £10K just to get in legally and above board.

In the meantime, if you’re not white, you can just rock up in the middle of the Channel in a fvcking inflatable boat, and the UK will rescue you, feed and house you and give you money to live on. And not charge you £10K you most likely don’t have. Even if you are white, you might be able to blag being from some Eastern European shithole, all you have to do is throw your passport into the briny.

It makes an absolute mockery of attracting talent, when you’re deterring them from applying with outrageous fees, while on the other hand, hovering up the flotsam in the Channel and rewarding them.
 
Half truths mixed in with nonsense, I’m afraid.

It is true that millions of Americans dream of a healthcare system like the NHS, yes. However, hundreds of millions of Americans wouldn’t have a healthcare system like the NHS under any circumstances.

Your statement of “decent healthcare mainly affordable to more wealthy people and those who can afford expensive monthly insurance premiums“ is nonsense. The percentage of the US populations that does not have health insurance is 8.5%. 91.5% do have health insurance.

Military veterans can use the VA health system. It is very much like the NHS, and damned-near universally derided. If you have health insurance and have VA eligibility, the VA is a last resort.

The healthcare regime in the US (in terms of the actual care) is absolutely outstanding, in my experience. FAR superior to the NHS.

I have two criticisms of the US regime - 1) better provision could be made for the 8.5%, even making the VA available to them would be a good start. 2) the billing is out of control. If I go to the doctor, it should cost me $20 for an office visit. But it costs $25, and I get a bill every fvcking time for $5 once the claim is processed. When I collapsed and went to the ER, I got about 7 bills, because the people who work in the hospitals are sometimes direct employees, and sometimes indirect contractors. This would be like an agency nurse working in an NHS facility, and the patient being billed a small amount. There’s no way for the hospital to collate all the claims, and present the patient with one bill. The overall bill was small, $300 or so, but considering they saved my life, cheap as chips. I had all manner of tests and imaging done. But then used a ream of paper to tidy up the billing. Not a big deal, but still annoying.

The NHS is ridiculously expensive for the service it provides. Or actually, fails to, in many cases. 9% of salary in NI payments, and this is in some way superior? Hahaha. Fcuk that for a game of soldiers, thank you very much.
This is what I have been told.
 
Well the NHS would have saved your life and you wouldn’t have got a bill because the costs come out of the taxes you pay. The NHS would also have saved the lives of the 8.5% of people who can’t afford healthcare insurance.

Bear in mind that they also do actually pay taxes both directly if they are employed but also indirectly through indirect taxes.

Just out of interest, how many milllions of people is 8.5% of the population?

The NHS isn’t perfect. There’s always room for improvement but it is the envy of most of those around the world who don’t have access to healthcare services both for routine treatment and emergency lifesaving treatment.

Don’t confuse the deliberate underfunding of some parts of the NHS and the deliberate poor service levels provided to the public in some instances by the NHS which are deliberately put in place by a regime and it‘s supporters that promotes private healthcare as a better alternative because they have associates who want to turn it into a multi trillion pound cash cow similar to the American model.
This is not what I have heard from my German and Dutch friends.
 
You criticise waiting times and the often poor service provided by the NHS. I absolutely agree with you that the service can be poor.

You are also absolutely right that the NHS isn’t a free service. Everybody in the UK pays for it. Even those not working still pay indirect taxes which fund the NHS as well as direct taxation does.

The problem with the NHS though isn’t that it can only provide a sometimes mediocre service. The problem is what the government want it to provide.

The government collects the tax and the government decides what it wants the NHS to do and it also decides what level of service it wants the NHS to provide.

We can say for the taxes we pay, we should be getting first class medical care as needed with no delay. If the government doesn’t fund that level of care though, the NHS can’t provide the resources to function at that standard of service.

So in terms of level of service, it’s not the NHS that is letting the public down. It‘s the government that’s not funding the proper level of service that’s letting the public down.

There’s also the politics. This government has many supporters both in the government itself and among it’s backbenchers in Parliament that would like to abolish the NHS and see a health insurance scheme funded service replace the NHS.

The only reason that hasn’t happened is because it would be a huge vote loser. The Conservative party opposed the formation of the NHS in the postwar years and it’s support over the years since then has been lukewarm because it would prefer to turn UK healthcare into a free for all market to crate opportunities for making money.

It suits the Conservatives to starve the NHS of the funding it would need to provide instant on demand healthcare at the drop of a hat because that would disable their own argument that the private sector can do a better job.

In a nutshell, the British public pay for something we aren’t actually getting because of the politics of members of the government and their supporters in Parliament. They just will never admit that it’s their policy to anybody other than themselves.

And this is something to be envious of?

Any public scheme, whether it’s the NHS, the local library, the bin wagons, whatever, will only ever get “good enough”. It will never be “the best” across the board, because the difference between “good enough” and “the best” can be/is perceived as a waste of public money. If/when that scheme fails to meet even the modest standards of “good enough”, by definition, it is not good enough.
 
You criticise waiting times and the often poor service provided by the NHS. I absolutely agree with you that the service can be poor.

You are also absolutely right that the NHS isn’t a free service. Everybody in the UK pays for it. Even those not working still pay indirect taxes which fund the NHS as well as direct taxation does.

The problem with the NHS though isn’t that it can only provide a sometimes mediocre service. The problem is what the government want it to provide.

The government collects the tax and the government decides what it wants the NHS to do and it also decides what level of service it wants the NHS to provide.

We can say for the taxes we pay, we should be getting first class medical care as needed with no delay. If the government doesn’t fund that level of care though, the NHS can’t provide the resources to function at that standard of service.

So in terms of level of service, it’s not the NHS that is letting the public down. It‘s the government that’s not funding the proper level of service that’s letting the public down.

There’s also the politics. This government has many supporters both in the government itself and among it’s backbenchers in Parliament that would like to abolish the NHS and see a health insurance scheme funded service replace the NHS.

The only reason that hasn’t happened is because it would be a huge vote loser. The Conservative party opposed the formation of the NHS in the postwar years and it’s support over the years since then has been lukewarm because it would prefer to turn UK healthcare into a free for all market to crate opportunities for making money.

It suits the Conservatives to starve the NHS of the funding it would need to provide instant on demand healthcare at the drop of a hat because that would disable their own argument that the private sector can do a better job.


In a nutshell, the British public pay for something we aren’t actually getting because of the politics of members of the government and their supporters in Parliament. They just will never admit that it’s their policy to anybody other than themselves.
My Bold. The Conservative party started the ball rolling on creating the NHS.
As has been pointed out, if the Conservatives have wanted to get rid of the NHS they are totally incompetant because they have been in charge of it for longer than the War criminal Party.
Lastly the country is broke, because of the last Labour Govmt. This will inevitably cause money problems.
 
This is not what I have heard from my German and Dutch friends.

You’ll have to be a bit more specific than that on what part of my statement they disagree with?

It is a fact that people fly to the UK from all over the world to get treated by the NHS. They might be doing so to try and excess free treatment but they wouldn’t bother if the treatment being offered wasn’t of a level to resolve their health problems to their satisfaction..

Do they have similar problems with health tourists in Germany and Holland?
 
You’ll have to be a bit more specific than that on what part of my statement they disagree with?

It is a fact that people fly to the UK from all over the world to get treated by the NHS. They might be doing so to try and excess free treatment but they wouldn’t bother if the treatment being offered wasn’t of a level to resolve their health problems to their satisfaction..

Do they have similar problems with health tourists in Germany and Holland?
No, because they will be charged for it . They will have to provide a Card number before the ambulance sets off.
This has happened to a friend who had a skiing accident in Austria.
Health tourists come here because it is free to them, no other reason.
 
No, because they will be charged for it . They will have to provide a Card number before the ambulance sets off.
This has happened to a friend who had a skiing accident in Austria.
Health tourists come here because it is free to them, no other reason.

So do the Germans and the Dutch pay for their healthcare when they turn up at a hospital as well then?
 
So do the Germans and the Dutch pay for their healthcare when they turn up at a hospital as well then?
Not if they have insurance, which they will have unless they are stupid.
I assume they will quote their insurance number first though.
What happens to Merkel's Marauders I have no idea.
My friend had medical insurance as part of his skiing holiday so that was fine.
 
Have a “truly informative” - I didn’t know that.

However, this is an example of where the UK cuts its nose off to spite its face at times.

If say a Canadian vetinerary surgeon wanted to go and practice in the UK for 5 years with his wife, he needs a visa, and so does his wife. He needs to pay £624/yr for each. So that’s £6,240 on top of his application fees of £1,742 for himself and his wife. If she wants to work, she’ll need her own visa too. They still have to pay tax and NI on their wages when they arrive.

Knocking on £10K just to get in legally and above board.

In the meantime, if you’re not white, you can just rock up in the middle of the Channel in a fvcking inflatable boat, and the UK will rescue you, feed and house you and give you money to live on. And not charge you £10K you most likely don’t have. Even if you are white, you might be able to blag being from some Eastern European shithole, all you have to do is throw your passport into the briny.

It makes an absolute mockery of attracting talent, when you’re deterring them from applying with outrageous fees, while on the other hand, hovering up the flotsam in the Channel and rewarding them.
In a nutshell, that is why there should be at least a 5 year ban on all immigrants who cannot meet the criteria listed above.
I have absolutely no problem with properly qualified people coming here to work, but we have enough home grown dross without importing more.
 
Have a “truly informative” - I didn’t know that.

However, this is an example of where the UK cuts its nose off to spite its face at times.

If say a Canadian vetinerary surgeon wanted to go and practice in the UK for 5 years with his wife, he needs a visa, and so does his wife. He needs to pay £624/yr for each. So that’s £6,240 on top of his application fees of £1,742 for himself and his wife. If she wants to work, she’ll need her own visa too. They still have to pay tax and NI on their wages when they arrive.

Knocking on £10K just to get in legally and above board.

In the meantime, if you’re not white, you can just rock up in the middle of the Channel in a fvcking inflatable boat, and the UK will rescue you, feed and house you and give you money to live on. And not charge you £10K you most likely don’t have. Even if you are white, you might be able to blag being from some Eastern European shithole, all you have to do is throw your passport into the briny.

It makes an absolute mockery of attracting talent, when you’re deterring them from applying with outrageous fees, while on the other hand, hovering up the flotsam in the Channel and rewarding them.
Yup - just been through the exact same process with the missus.

After over 6 years worth of Spouse Visas, NHS Surcharges, bank account and document attestations - well over £10k including a couple of 'VIP Appointments' - oh, and we had to lock up close to £70k in liquid funds for the whole process to prove we'd not be a burden to the state, provide PROOF of a real relationship with regular photos of holidays, events etc... - during the period, she could work, pay tax but she couldn't claim a penny in any benefit of any kind - She got her ILR a couple of weeks ago and all that stress has simply melted away. We were always worried that a simple technicality could affect everything (and it nearly did as whoever ticked the boxes on the final ILR application couldn't read a bank statement properly).

Trust me - it's been a running joke for a long time that we could have saved a lot of money if we'd had a day trip to Calais...
 
Yup - just been through the exact same process with the missus.

After over 6 years worth of Spouse Visas, NHS Surcharges, bank account and document attestations - well over £10k including a couple of 'VIP Appointments' - oh, and we had to lock up close to £70k in liquid funds for the whole process to prove we'd not be a burden to the state, provide PROOF of a real relationship with regular photos of holidays, events etc... - during the period, she could work, pay tax but she couldn't claim a penny in any benefit of any kind - She got her ILR a couple of weeks ago and all that stress has simply melted away. We were always worried that a simple technicality could affect everything (and it nearly did as whoever ticked the boxes on the final ILR application couldn't read a bank statement properly).

Trust me - it's been a running joke for a long time that we could have saved a lot of money if we'd had a day trip to Calais...
My neighbour is an Italian who came from SA.
It has cost him a fortune.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
Visa/immigration applicants have to pay a health surcharge when they apply for a visa of between £450 and £700 a year.

When they apply for a visa!
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
Visa/immigration applicants have to pay a health surcharge when they apply for a visa of between £450 and £700 a year.

Not necessarily. I would suggest you read;
for a complete description.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
In 2019 before Covid kicked in there were 3.1 million visitor visas granted to the UK.

Just what point are you making there please?
 

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