How to "save" the NHS

A better starting point would be to determine what caused (and necessitated), 10 years of so called austerity and prevent it from happening again.
Ah! You mean the previous Labour Governments, including that of the idiot Brown :( !!
 
Agreed



Can you name another Country that has exact same setup as the NHS ?



Can you name a single Country that the UK lags, where that Country does not have compulsory other Medical Insurance Schemes, either individual or occupational ?


Wasn't that one of Frank Field's suggestions under Bliar in an attempt to reconnect the user with the NHS ? One of the many tricky decisions bottled by that useless c**t Bliar
 
Just where does the billions of pounds spent on the NHS go?
I read this today and it’s bloody scandalous, it’s about time it got its house in order and Hunt obviously had his finger up his arse and mind in neutral all those years he was Health Minister and those before him. So thank you COVID for highlighting this problem, every cloud.


Whilst it is absolutely correct to question the wastage of £Billions in the NHS.

It is unfair to make comparisons with other Countries that have Health Services that are not funded like the NHS.
 
Realistically, when the in depth inquiry sits to decide on how the government dealt with Covid 19, it needs to look firstly at how 10 years of austerity affected our ability to deal with it in the first place.

The starting point, were we in a good position to deal with it.
Would this be the NHS that had 11 years of money hosed all over it then suffered a frankly minor drop in budget increases (1.4% vs 3.7%) and somehow failed to manage to cope with having the hosepipe turned off ?
 
A better starting point would be to determine what caused 10 years of so called austerity and prevent it from happening again.

Try looking at the mess Labour left the NHS in through the use of PFI

From that World renouned Right Wing rag :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 
Try looking at the mess Labour left the NHS in through the use of PFI

From that World renouned Right Wing rag :rolleyes::rolleyes:



This is a far better article from 2004

 
This is a far better article from 2004


Loads of articles pointing out the problems for the NHS caused by Labours rampant use of PFI.
 
Just to pre-empt the PFI 'it was all down to the Tories' thing.

Yes it was, but it was designed for projects that could eventually support themselves and then pay back through revenue generation - it would not have been a liability to the public purse at full term.

Labour used it for completely different nefarious reasons that should not be held in any comparison.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Try looking at the mess Labour left the NHS in through the use of PFI

From that World renouned Right Wing rag :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The new police stations that were built to replace those Victorian buildings were proved to be unfit for purpose before we moved in, they certainly won’t be standing in a hundred plus years times.
And then there were the contracts, it cost gawd knows how much just to replace a light bulb.
I truly hate Blair and Brown for what they did to this country.
 
Realistically, when the in depth inquiry sits to decide on how the government dealt with Covid 19, it needs to look firstly at how 10 years of austerity affected our ability to deal with it in the first place.

The starting point, were we in a good position to deal with it.
It should probably also note that "austerity" as applied to the NHS was actual year on year above inflation budget increases - as opposed to significant cuts for most other government departments.

What austerity didn't do was allow for the so-called "traditional" increases (generally 3-4% pa). These "traditional" increases are - depending on your PoV :

1. Absolutely what is required, no questions asked, just tax some more rich people, they can afford it.
2. A result of all those gimme-grants coming over here to use our health service
3. Too many executives handling an overall budget some 3-4 times that of defence. If only it was left to Matron etc etc.
4. The inevitable result of an ageing population where ever more complex treatment regimes allow people to live much longer with previously life-threatening conditions.
5. Levels of sedentary lifestyles of sections of the population that lead to poor health outcomes, criticism of which is actively promoted and yet opposed by elements within that health service (think "sort your self out fatty"/"how dare you destroy their self-esteem, they'll be traumatised")
6. The inevitable result of an organisation that directly employs over 1.5M people.

The debate that has not yet been had is to define what is a sustainable level of spending, what is a sustainable level of service and if there is a difference between the two, how to bridge it. That debate will be impossible until there is some acceptance that the NHS is not - and can never be - perfect and that free at the point of use cannot possibly encompass all ailments.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
It should probably also note that "austerity" as applied to the NHS was actual year on year above inflation budget increases - as opposed to significant cuts for most other government departments.

What austerity didn't do was allow for the so-called "traditional" increases (generally 3-4% pa). These "traditional" increases are - depending on your PoV :

1. Absolutely what is required, no questions asked, just tax some more rich people, they can afford it.
2. A result of all those gimme-grants coming over here to use our health service
3. Too many executives handling an overall budget some 3-4 times that of defence. If only it was left to Matron etc etc.
4. The inevitable result of an ageing population where ever more complex treatment regimes allow people to live much longer with previously life-threatening conditions.
5. Levels of sedentary lifestyles of sections of the population that lead to poor health outcomes, criticism of which is actively promoted and yet opposed by elements within that health service (think "sort your self out fatty"/"how dare you destroy their self-esteem, they'll be traumatised")
6. The inevitable result of an organisation that directly employs over 1.5M people.

The debate that has not yet been had is to define what is a sustainable level of spending, what is a sustainable level of service and if there is a difference between the two, how to bridge it. That debate will be impossible until there is some acceptance that the NHS is not - and can never be - perfect and that free at the point of use cannot possibly encompass all ailments.
So in a nutshell it’s not money that’s the problem it’s the way you spend that money and the top heavy bureaucrats waste it.
 
A better starting point would be to determine what caused 10 years of so called austerity and prevent it from happening again.

Poor fiscal management coupled with a global banking crisis. How far back do you want to go?
 
Poor fiscal management coupled with a global banking crisis. How far back do you want to go?

Then thats the problem not the so called austerity afterwards.
Also, it was more the piss poor fiscal management rather than the global banking crisis.
 
Just to pre-empt the PFI 'it was all down to the Tories' thing.

Yes it was, but it was designed for projects that could eventually support themselves and then pay back through revenue generation - it would not have been a liability to the public purse at full term.

Labour used it for completely different nefarious reasons that should not be held in any comparison.
The Private Eye article I posted a link to explains the major differences between PFI under Major & Bliar/Brown
 
The Private Eye article I posted a link to explains the major differences between PFI under Major & Bliar/Brown
Pffff, I don't read what other people post, that would mean the possibility of learning something.
 
So in a nutshell it’s not money that’s the problem it’s the way you spend that money and the top heavy bureaucrats waste it.
There are some who think that (option 3).

My money is on 4 & 5. Unconstrained demand and expectation of unconstrained supply.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
There are some who think that (option 3).

My money is on 4 & 5. Unconstrained demand and expectation of unconstrained supply.
I think these shiny arses should be replaced with senior retired surgeons who understand how a hospital is ran.
Have a panel of maybe three of these persons and a couple of senior retired nurses to determine how the hospitals in their region spend their budget. With of course a well qualified and experience accountant to keep an eye on and advise accordingly.
 
I think these shiny arses should be replaced with senior retired surgeons who understand how a hospital is ran.
Have a panel of maybe three of these persons and a couple of senior retired nurses to determine how the hospitals in their region spend their budget. With of course a well qualified and experience accountant to keep an eye on and advise accordingly.
What, some sort of group that could commission the clinical care in their region? What sort of crazy radical idea is that

Plus you are assuming that "senior retired surgeons " actually know how a hospital works rather than having spent their time focused on doing surgery and being blissfully unaware of anything outside their speciality
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I think these shiny arses should be replaced with senior retired surgeons who understand how a hospital is ran.
Have a panel of maybe three of these persons and a couple of senior retired nurses to determine how the hospitals in their region spend their budget. With of course a well qualified and experience accountant to keep an eye on and advise accordingly.


I currently have no budget responsibility.

Next step in the ladder, if I ever take it, gives me control of around 20million.

Quite a steep learning curve.
 
I currently have no budget responsibility.

Next step in the ladder, if I ever take it, gives me control of around 20million.

Quite a steep learning curve.
You're Scottish - stick it in your bank account then don't use it for whatever it was designed for.
 
Top