How to recruit Army Doctors - part1

#3
:eek: They did that in germany as they closed the military hospitals down (to save money) from what i heard it cost the MOD more as with bugger all overseas postings, who would want to join the army to then go back to working for the NHS.. Back where you started from .. DOH     ???
 
E

ex-dvr

Guest
#4
thanks for that T_c, you just made me feel very old!! how can any squaddie live having not tried experimental units like BMH Rinteln and Hannover
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#5
What a sad inditement on the DMS, with no MO's taking the £50,000 blood money! Hoon - You should resign and book into Porton Down as a test subject!

DEFENCE MEDICAL SERVICES- WEAR A VEST!
 
#6
Army Doctor Entrance Test;

Broekn Arm - brufin, light duties.
Broken leg - brufin, tubigrip, light duties.
tonsilitis - Asprin.
Blow to head with concussion - head ache tablet.
Swollen knee so lightweights would not fit - Zero.

Yes - these are all true - any more out there!!
 
#7
1.  Locate struck off GP list
2.  Pin to dart board
3.  Thrown dart at list
4.  Contat struck off GP closest to dart
5.  Offer contract

No MO will say your wrong they just couldnt handle the litigation twice, and if your really ill the're bound to miss the symptoms and give you some stronger pink tablets.  Go civvy its simple, its easy, its fast.  Remember elephants cant count.  :eek: after a routine visit with knee pain   ::) after all the pink tablets I got
 
#8
"Go civvy its simple, its easy, its fast"

You must be joking! What planet do you live on??

For all the jokes about military medics and doctors, no one else in the country has their own dedicated medical service. With staff that understand the job and work ethos of the patients.  With no whinging civvies clogging up the waiting rooms wanting a doctor's note for a week "on the sick" because they haven't used up their allocation of work sick days yet this year. Or for those who like to worry about these things, no asylum seekers leapfrogging to the front of the queue.

The AMS is undermanned and overworked, and not perfect, but the medics and doctors care about soldiers and will be there to save your life if you need them.

Regarding the original article in the Scotland on Sunday - it's highly misleading. There have been several hundred expressions of interest in the golden hellos, but of course no one has been recruited yet - the scheme has only just been announced!

We are NOT supposed to be able to man 13 Field Hospitals - that completely fails to understand the cadre system of the TA Field Hospitals.

Defence Medical Service planning assumptions have always assumed the use of reservists in the case of a large deployment.

As for Dr John Ferguson's 10% casualty rate, I'm not sure what staff course he's attended, but it isn't one that I recognise. Without going into details, the expected casualty rates are calculated for every option as part of the Estimate process by the Permanent Joint Headquarters (PJHQ). And I can assure you that, rather than sending insufficient beds, the only criticisms I've heard from people who actually know what they're talking about have been the other way around - are we over egging the medical support?

And while it's true that we are badly undermanned in some key trades, the undermanning figures often look worse than they are because the requirement is based on large-scale, everything-we've-got warfighting, which is not what is happening.

The medical services are regularly knocked in peacetime, but would you fancy fighting a war without them? And has there ever been a war or conflict where they've let you down? Ask anyone who was treated in the 'Red and Green Life Machine' in the Falklands. And ask yourself why the RAMC has more Victoria Crosses than any other organisation, including two of the three nutters who won it twice!
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#9
And while it's true that we are badly undermanned in some key trades, the undermanning figures often look worse than they are because the requirement is based on large-scale, everything-we've-got warfighting, which is not what is happening.

The medical services are regularly knocked in peacetime, but would you fancy fighting a war without them? And has there ever been a war or conflict where they've let you down? Ask anyone who was treated in the 'Red and Green Life Machine' in the Falklands. And ask yourself why the RAMC has more Victoria Crosses than any other organisation, including two of the three nutters who won it twice!
I believe over 40,000 troops will be deploying and as that will nearly 50% of the Army, then HWF will be on the menu.

Correct me if I am wrong, the planned assualt on Iraq will if OBUA is involved  be High Intensity War Fighting of the worse kind- OBUA with a hint of Anthrax and VX. Soldiers expect to treated to a standard they deserve- and that includes the DMS sorting out recruitment and retention of specialists- which at the moment they fail miserably.

Just for your history, the Royal Engineers and Royal Artillery both have more VC's than the Medical Services. Plus I would not describe Noel Godfrey Chavasse or Arthur Martin Leake as"nutters". You should read their citations and biographies. Typical statement from an Officer; whom I assume to be in the AMS.
 
#10
Perhaps I explained myself badly. The current operational and retained task requirements are widely regarded as being too high, based as they were on assumptions that no longer apply. For example the oft stated requirement for some 120 consultant anaesthetists is clearly rubbish - and the forthcoming DMC phase 2 study will look that requirement again in more detail. Since we in fact require nearer half that, the percentage shortfall is clearly not as great as it looks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that we are undermanned. I was simply trying to put some of the wilder statistics quoted in the press into context.

In any forthcoming operations in the middle east, soldiers WILL be treated to a standard they deserve. The med support to the operation is that which PJHQ's Medical Estimate and casualty figures state is required. Where there are not enough regular specialists, reservists are being deployed who are every bit as well trained and qualified. The end capability is the same.

I stand corrected in quoting what is clearly an urban myth that the RAMC has the most VCs. However, my use of the term 'nutter' to describe Chevasse and Leake was quite clearly in admiration, and certainly not meant disrespectfully.

The whole point behind my post was to try to balance the constant negative messages that are perpetuated about the Defence Medical Services. No one denies that there are severe under manning issues, and problems with recruiting and retention of medical specialists (thats why MMRR was commissioned). DCS 15 is now widely recognised as having made a huge mistake in slashing the medical services so badly. However, it is misleading and scare-mongering to suggest that troops deploying to the Gulf will do so without adequate medical cover. This is simply not the case.

I was also making the point that despite ongoing problems, historically the DMS rarely failed to provide adequate deployable medical capability, which at the end of the day is the primary reason they are there.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#11
I was also making the point that despite ongoing problems, historically the DMS rarely failed to provide adequate deployable medical capability, which at the end of the day is the primary reason they are there.
I think you'll find the 'coal face' soldiers making that always work. Going that little bit futher!
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#14
,

In any forthcoming operations in the middle east, soldiers WILL be treated to a standard they deserve. The med support to the operation is that which PJHQ's Medical Estimate and casualty figures state is required. Where there are not enough regular specialists, reservists are being deployed who are every bit as well trained and qualified. The end capability is the same.
We may have the right numbers but are they in the right place? There's not much point having fully manned tables waiting in a Fd Hosp if life and limbs have been lost early in the chain due to shortfalls in CS... Lets hope those Med Estimates were based on something a bit more informed than the usual quality of OA...
 
#16
31 short.. QMan9193 .. that's with all the able bods from the MDHUs and the correctly qualifed TA personel mobilised.
*Swings Lantern*  When GW1 happened there was 140 ODPs in the regular army and for that one we still had to deploy as much of the TA ODPs as we could muster and all class two trainee ODPs and have them work as fully trained class ones.

Now we have a strength of 80 to 90 ODPs in the regular army.. i'll leave you to to the rest of the maths.
 
V

vespa

Guest
#17
i would have thought most doctors would have liked to work for the amy medical , less hassle and stress compared to civilan life and regular hours in peacetime , ok you will be rushed off your feet in battles  on balance i would imagine working condition are better tahn civilian life .

correct me if im wrong
 
#18
for most junior doctors the life in the army is exactley the same as being in the NHS with more buggering about.
 
#19
" i would have thought most doctors would have liked to work for the amy medical , less hassle and stress compared to civilan life and regular hours in peacetime , ok you will be rushed off your feet in battles  on balance i would imagine working condition are better tahn civilian life . "

Methinks you imagine wrong. Ever spoken to your RMO (if lucky enough to have one)?
I know many who are frequently di**ed for last minute tours, exercise cover, locum cover, more tours etc etc etc. Something to do with being undermanned..........

Not only that, but often very junior docs are left in remote places doing 24hour cover 7 days a week. Ok - so they are not actually fixing people all that time - but  they can't let their guard down. How many civvie docs do you know that do that kind of commitment?

Dont get me wrong - some postings are relatively cushy and some docs get some 'protected' jobs whilst they train - in NHS hospitals(!!!). etc etc. But please don't assume all Army docs have it easier than in the civvie world.

:-*
 
#20
for the record the MDHU system means that hospital doctors in the army, including all junior docs and hospital specialists work in NHS hospitals and are on exactly the same rotas as their civilian colleagues meaning that our working hours and conditions are no different (and neither is the standard of medical practice).  Only difference is that army docs can frequently be hugely disadvantaged in terms of training (beacuse of interruptions due to operational commitments) and as they progress up the ladder in terms of remuneration.  MMRR has done little to change anything, or at least not in our favour.  
Justified whingeathon over!
 

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