How to kill 300,000 Americans - Review

#41
What? The same codeine you can buy without prescription in Tesco?
The Codeine you can buy wherever is an 8mg tab, usually combined with Paracetamol. The prescribed dose is 30mg, and most patients will take 2 tabs at a time, so 60mg.

As for FENT (an assay of Pethidine if anyones interested), which is 50mcg/ml, it has a rapid onset with a short half life. This makes it ideal for chronic and/or paliative pain and analgesia in association with anaesthesia. I give Midazolam followed by FENT, but in a very controlled way and I'm always mindful of knocking their breathing off.

Ordinary FENT has approx 10x the potency of Morphine. However, there are other versions of FENT such as Alfentanyl, Remifentanyl and Carfentanyl (there are others) that are significantly more potent that normal FENT. These substances will stop a person breathing in relatively small volumes (1 to 2 mls) in less than a minute.
 
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Goatman

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Book Reviewer
#42
GB - plse note this is a thread about the ongoing Opioid epidemic.

To what extent was the US medical establishment complicit in over-prescribing addictive narcotics which the manufacturers knew by their own admission in 2000 were open to widespread abuse ?

To what extent is Britain now following suit?

If anyone wants to have a rant about firearms, then there are a plethora of existing threads in which to rehearse those arguments.

@Guns - please note. If this thread needs shifting elsewhere please feel free.
 
#43
GB - plse note this is a thread about the ongoing Opioid epidemic.

To what extent was the US medical establishment complicit in over-prescribing addictive narcotics which the manufacturers knew by their own admission in 2000 were open to widespread abuse ?

To what extent is Britain now following suit?

If anyone wants to have a rant about firearms, then there are a plethora of existing threads in which to rehearse those arguments.

@Guns - please note. If this thread needs shifting elsewhere please feel free.

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/news/20170731/doctors-still-overprescribing-opioids-in-us#1

Well according to this in 2015 38 percent of the US population was using a legally prescribed opioid.

The big problem it appears is the people who get a prescription and just give them to a person who is addicted to them.
 
#44
Will the U.K. Go the same way as the US regarding opioids?

The short answer is no; I can't imagine an GP working for a cash strapped NHS has anywhere near the ability to be as profligate with their patients perscription meds as a doctor on the US working for a system that rewards bilking an insurance company.

Also drug marketing is completely different in the US: little financial incentive for a U.K. Doctor to run a pill mill.
 
#45
Many of the States hardest hit have started cracking down on opioid prescriptions, to the point there is concern that chronic pain sufferers aren't getting the pain relief they need. When I hurt my back in 2004 I was given a three month supply of Oxy, which is more than enough to have gotten me addicted if I took them all. The result of this crackdown, however, is that heroin use is sky-rocketing since it is now far cheaper than Oxy. The only way to deal with this issue is treatment but no one wants to fund the necessary beds.
 
#46
Improve the economy and give people hope. Then go after the people who sell it with a vengeance.

It’s good stuff, but I tried to ween myself off of it as quickly as possible.
Sadly, it won’t work that way. It’s failed at every turn.

Improve the economy? We have first world problems.

Legalise it. Save money on policing it and tax the crap out of it......but then they’ll just smuggle in tax free drugs
 
#47
Sadly, it won’t work that way. It’s failed at every turn.

Improve the economy? We have first world problems.

Legalise it. Save money on policing it and tax the crap out of it......but then they’ll just smuggle in tax free drugs
You are right, but I don't know about legalizing prescription drug abuse. Not everybody in America or the UK I would imagine lives a first world lifestyle. Many have a 2nd world standard and a few depending on where one lives, 3rd world.

One would have to have a plan that is a worth 4/5 a **** to tackle the eventually black market for these drugs.
 
#48
You are right, but I don't know about legalizing prescription drug abuse. Not everybody in America or the UK I would imagine lives a first world lifestyle. Many have a 2nd world standard and a few depending on where one lives, 3rd world.

One would have to have a plan that is a worth 4/5 a **** to tackle the eventually black market for these drugs.
I may have misunderstood the original article about abuse of prescription drugs.

They’ve obviously been gotten through illegal means. In which case f**k em over.

However, where’s there’s money to be made somebody will try and make it, be it importing heroin, making crystal meth. Supplying duty free gags and booze or providing counterfeit goods.
 
#49
Crytal Meth also seems to take its toll in the US , frightening really, one in 350 on it!...


Some additional facts about meth from the U.S. Department of Justice’s 2017 National Drug Threat Assessment include the following:

  • 897,000 people 12 and older currently use meth
  • 225,000 people began using meth in 2015 alone
  • Meth addiction treatment admissions rose 3 percent from 2014 to 2015
  • 135,264 people got treatment for meth addiction in publicly-funded facilities in 2015
  • 85-90 percent of stimulant-related drug deaths involve meth
  • 5,716 people died as a result of stimulant overdose in 2015
  • Stimulant-related deaths rates rose 225 percent between 2005 and 2015
 
#50
I may have misunderstood the original article about abuse of prescription drugs.

They’ve obviously been gotten through illegal means. In which case f**k em over.

However, where’s there’s money to be made somebody will try and make it, be it importing heroin, making crystal meth. Supplying duty free gags and booze or providing counterfeit goods.
Would be easier to crack down on the doctors, they have much to lose.

Yes you are right about the black market, it will always be an issue to confront and just another task to load up Law Enforcement with.

What would the odds of a thriving black market for these products in the UK be?
 
#51
read the article - and plse don't hi-jack a useful thread on a side issue.

The point Melanie Reid and the US author are making is that prescription pain killers are killing more people Stateside than either guns or cars.
It's not just the prescription ones, now there is a market for it huge quantities are being smuggled in from abroad direct to the dealers, including knock off versions that may not have the same strength/effect etc.
 
#52
Would be easier to crack down on the doctors, they have much to lose.

Yes you are right about the black market, it will always be an issue to confront and just another task to load up Law Enforcement with.

What would the odds of a thriving black market for these products in the UK be?
Not necessarily the Doctors. ISTR that prescription drugs come in many forms.

Subscribed by doctors for sale. Sold by patients. Sold by Chemists. Stolen from chemists. Stolen in the supply chain etc etc etc.

People will always service a need. It wasn’t too long ago when people in the U.K. were getting smashed if their tits on readily available legal stuff due to the minimal risk of being caught with it.

Cans of helium for blowing up balloons for example are becoming ever more used in suicides.
 
#53
Not necessarily the Doctors. ISTR that prescription drugs come in many forms.

Subscribed by doctors for sale. Sold by patients. Sold by Chemists. Stolen from chemists. Stolen in the supply chain etc etc etc.

People will always service a need. It wasn’t too long ago when people in the U.K. were getting smashed if their tits on readily available legal stuff due to the minimal risk of being caught with it.

Cans of helium for blowing up balloons for example are becoming ever more used in suicides.

Hmm the helium is an interesting bit, but where there is a will there will always be a way.

So what are the popular drugs in the UK these days?
 
#54
Hmm the helium is an interesting bit, but where there is a will there will always be a way.

So what are the popular drugs in the UK these days?
I believe spice is now illegal, but it used to be legal.

This is the issue. Something is made illegal. The suppliers tweak it so it’s legal. It causes a problem so it’s made illegal. The suppliers tweak it so it’s legal and so the cycle begins again.

Legal Highs

The history of the normal run of the mill drugs is intersting.

Cocaine, amphetamine etc were legally available over the counter many moons ago
 
#55
Sadly, it won’t work that way. It’s failed at every turn.

Improve the economy? We have first world problems.

Legalise it. Save money on policing it and tax the crap out of it......but then they’ll just smuggle in tax free drugs

If you legalise it and tax the crap out of it you've still got the potential for a black market. Legalise it and make it available at reasonable cost would be better.
 
#57
Most popular drugs in the US ATM?

Opiates and oids and crystal meth are the biggies.

Benzos are also popular

Spice and flakka crop up in the news but are not as wide spread.

Weed is legal in 9 states.

Acid/shrooms/MDMA are more niche these days.
 
#58
Most popular drugs in the US ATM?

Opiates and oids and crystal meth are the biggies.

Benzos are also popular

Spice and flakka crop up in the news but are not as wide spread.

Weed is legal in 9 states.

Acid/shrooms/MDMA are more niche these days.
I know the US ones, was wondering what the big ones in the UK were and to see if you folks follow our trends.
 
#59
I know the US ones, was wondering what the big ones in the UK were and to see if you folks follow our trends.
The fact I have no idea is a bit of a comfort to me. I know spice is an issue but only because we had a slow news week. If we where having an overt issue with drugs I'm sure it would be more in the public consciousness.
I'm not saying we don't have big problems with drugs, just not to the level America does.
It may be that our social security net catches a lot of people who would be susceptible to drug abuse if they slid further down the slippery slope to real poverty. It may just be we don't have as many destitute people who see no other way out of their shitty situation. Per 1000 of population we have, I'm sure, considerably fewer junkies than the States. Other than the social safety net I can't see any reason why it would be.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#60
Lets take this over to the Mass shooting thread.
yes please.

More on the Opioid addiction epidemic

Lawmakers struggle to get to grips with America’s opioid epidemic

THE speed at which opioids have ravaged the United States caught policymakers flat-footed. For 12 years deaths from overdoses of opioids—a group of drugs which includes prescription painkillers, heroin, methadone and synthetic varieties—crept up at a concerning but moderate average rate of 1,200 additional deaths per year. Starting in 2012, however, an epidemic took off. During the subsequent five years the rate of increase soared to nearly 5,000 extra deaths every year, causing the annual toll to rise from 23,000 to roughly double that amount.

The underlying numbers give cause to be both optimistic and pessimistic. On one hand, deaths caused by prescription opioids and heroin now appear to be falling. Yet on the other, those resulting from synthetic opioids such as fentanyl—a drug 50 times more potent than heroin—continue to rise rapidly. Assuming recent trends have continued, in February the toll from fentanyl is expected to have surpassed those from prescription painkillers and heroin combined.

Background note for Non-UK perss: :

Unlike the UK's Guardian or Daily Mirror newspapers or large state broadcasters, , The Economist is not Main Stream Media.

Nor is it generally felt to be either Left Wing or notably alt-Right.

The current Editor was drafted in from the International Monetary Fund.
 

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