How many people here WILL have the vaccine and are comfortable doing so?

What's your view about vaccination?

  • I'd never take a vaccination of any kind, not ever.

    Votes: 6 1.1%
  • I'd never take the covid vaccine, but might take one for a virus like smallpox.

    Votes: 21 4.0%
  • I'll wait to see what the covid vaccine side-effects are. I may take it if it all seems safe.

    Votes: 51 9.8%
  • I'd reluctantly take the covid vaccine if the penalties for not taking it may be too much to bear.

    Votes: 16 3.1%
  • I'm okay with taking the vaccine, as I feel the overall benefits are likely to outweigh any risks.

    Votes: 432 82.8%

  • Total voters
    522

GDog

Old-Salt
and case law is very interesting in this area
Quite.

The tennis case is interesting. My earlier deference to the presumption of innocence was proven wrong, but the Oz Government still managed to make themselves look like vindictive *********. We now have a Serbian tennis player who admits to breaking health laws in his own country and gave an inaccurate answer on the 14 day question on his visa application, but might now not get his visa cancelled when ordinarily it should be - because the Oz government tried to take the piss for political reasons at a point in time when they didn't have any evidence of wrongdoing. Now they do have evidence, they're sitting on it and taking no action because it would be politically awkward. Nobody looks credible. "Rules are rules" - bollocks.

In any case, it seems you can now invent any old public health/safety bollocks and use it as justification to create idiotic regulations to be imposed at border control or within society in general, even when those drawing it up don't believe it matters and don't comply with it themselves.

Mercifully, at least one judge in Australia has had the courage to point out that this doesn't wash.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
then you will not be getting in
This sentiment/post annoys me even more when I think back to the case of nurse Cafferkey and the fiasco when she crossed the border.

She had ******* Ebola FFS and they waved her in. Public health is nothing more than a lot of theatrical smoke and mirrors at best.
 
You've obviously been following this particular saga. While it's a slight thread digression, what's your thoughts on the latest i.e. second VISA revoking announced today by their immigration minister?
Jumping in - Oz law is similar to the UK.

If the Home Secretary (usually a lacky siting in Croydon, Liverpool or Sheffield - but for a case like this it will be a under sec in close discussion with a team of lawyers) decides that the case meets the regulations that say “you cannot come in because you are a threat to public safety” then you ain’t coming in. The bar is set very low and it is ‘reasonable’, or over 50/50 decision rather than beyond all reasonable doubt.

I have no doubt that in this case he will throw another hissy fit, go to a judge and appeal. According to an Oz lawyer on R4 this morning however he is stuffed - I can’t remember what he said but the bar is even lower over there and very low level of ‘reasonableness required.

I think unless his lawyers get VERY creative that he is going home and alot of ratlickers will be screaming about Soros and Bill Gates very shortly.
 
If only there were ways we knew of that reduced the amount of infections, reduced the transmission rates and stopped people spreading it…

[\sarcasm]
Yeah - spend the rest of our lives running scared of a virus that to most is just a common cold, making sure we always wear masks, making sure we have mandatory vaccinations, making sure we always have to show our medical status when going to the pub, restaurant or any event, limiting event numbers to 500, making sure we always socially distance, always take a test before we go anywhere and after we come back, always hide in isolation without any symptoms if we test positive, and as for travelling to other countries - forget it - it's just not worth it.

F**k any of that. Get vaccinated, if you want to and let's get back to normality.
 
Yeah - spend the rest of our lives running scared of a virus that to most is just a common cold, making sure we always wear masks, making sure we have mandatory vaccinations, making sure we always have to show our medical status when going to the pub, restaurant or any event, limiting event numbers to 500, making sure we always socially distance, always take a test before we go anywhere and after we come back, always hide in isolation without any symptoms if we test positive, and as for travelling to other countries - forget it - it's just not worth it.

F**k any of that. Get vaccinated, if you want to and let's get back to normality.
I mean, we could gibber in terror at the thought of a piece of cloth and extend the threat of overwhelming our hospitals with the substantial minority to whom it‘s much worse than a cold, but I’d rather people act like decent human beings.

I’m still interested in what really bothers you about masks, btw.
 
Yeah - spend the rest of our lives running scared of a virus that to most is just a common cold, making sure we always wear masks, making sure we have mandatory vaccinations, making sure we always have to show our medical status when going to the pub, restaurant or any event, limiting event numbers to 500, making sure we always socially distance, always take a test before we go anywhere and after we come back, always hide in isolation without any symptoms if we test positive, and as for travelling to other countries - forget it - it's just not worth it.

F**k any of that. Get vaccinated, if you want to and let's get back to normality.
Because for enough people it kills them. And for about nine times that it has life changing consequences.

I gave a very valid comparison to polio to you. Are you saying that the tens of thousands of dead and the tens of thousands in iron lungs were… meh?

And polio led to massive changes in lifestyles too - the problem is this virus is far more flexible and this is a problem.
 
Because for enough people it kills them. And for about nine times that it has life changing consequences.

I gave a very valid comparison to polio to you. Are you saying that the tens of thousands of dead and the tens of thousands in iron lungs were… meh?

And polio led to massive changes in lifestyles too - the problem is this virus is far more flexible and this is a problem.

Get vaccinated, if you want to, and everyone should crack on with life as normal.

Polio is still a live virus in our society, what measures or lifestyle changes do we take now to prevent it?
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Get vaccinated, if you want to, and everyone should crack on with life as normal.

Polio is still a live virus in our society, what measures or lifestyle changes do we take now to prevent it?

In terms of measures, we vaccinate.

With or without sugar lump.

Been at least 3 times so far.
 
Get vaccinated, if you want to, and everyone should crack on with life as normal.

Polio is still a live virus in our society, what measures or lifestyle changes do we take now to prevent it?
I’m on vaccine number 4

and it is not extant in the U.K. despite the vaccine we have not preventing onward transmission.
 

Maalox

On ROPS
On ROPs
Hulk Hogan refuses the shot


A-31562-1139973517.jpeg.jpg
 

GDog

Old-Salt
You've obviously been following this particular saga. While it's a slight thread digression, what's your thoughts on the latest i.e. second VISA revoking announced today by their immigration minister?
Initially, I thought that the recent disclosure of his press interview whilst knowingly Covid positive and the duff answer to his 14 day travel question had been totally overlooked by the Government, which smacked of incompetence.

However, that impression was conveyed by his lawyers and since then the Government side have indeed cited the above information as part of their affidavit: https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/service...uments/Sealed-Affidavit-Bannister-1512022.pdf

On the lying about travel in 14 days, it seems the minister was willing to regard that as an honest mistake (FWIW in his shoes I would not have been so charitable), with a neutral to minimal effect on his decision to cancel the visa. If I was the minister with the intention to deport, I would have made more of this in the legal submissions. If you want to bang on about "rules are rules" then this is about the only credible area in which that principle can be applied.

The press interview is also cited by the Government, but as almost a footnote - the concern being that he will encourage everyone else to ignore isolation requirements. I'm not very convinced by this argument - lots of people bent the rules at some point or other, but it's usually down to personal circumstances or beliefs, not because they were inspired to do so by a tennis player. He might get convicted by the Serbian state in the future for this offence, which would be much more pertinent for visa applications in future - but not for this visa/competition.

The heart of the legal basis of the minister's decision is that not cancelling Djokovic's visa would lead to an increase in anti-vaccine sentiment and would suppress vaccination rates. I think that argument is laughable. His lawyers have rightly pointed out that his deportation could have exactly the same effect by turning him into a martyr.

To my mind, the most significant anti-vaccine issues revolve around mistrust of and regulatory over-reach by authorities - and suspicion of dubious clinical benefits in groups at lower risk. I and thousands of others have been banging on about it and it isn't going to vanish because of one sportsman's visa cancellation.

The first attempt at visa cancellation was politics attempted through regulation, which failed because he'd actually complied with the law.

This visa cancellation is purely political. I think the minister's submission is a steaming pile of bollocks - and I say that as someone that doesn't have much sympathy with Djokovic's recent admissions.

I wouldn't bet on him staying past Monday but I think he has a chance of success, as the minister's reasoning borders on being outrageous. That said, the law was designed to let ministers exercise huge amounts of latitude in coming to their decision.

This case will ultimately boil down to how much the judiciary are willing to tread on the feet of elected officials - essentially if they are willing to openly say that the minister is completely taking the piss with his reasoning.

To answer the broader point, of the two parties the Government's behaviour has been far more egregious. They've basically dumped an accurate, reasonable interpretation of the law ("rules are rules" as so many are keen to say) in order to create a political scapegoat. I wouldn't trust the Australian Government as far as I could throw it after this debacle.
 
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I would like to make a brief statement to address the outcomes of today’s Court hearing. I will now be taking some time to rest and to recuperate, before making any further comments beyond this.

I am extremely disappointed with the Court ruling to dismiss my application for judicial review of the Minister’s decision to cancel my visa, which means I cannot stay in Australia and participate in the Australian Open.

I respect the Court’s ruling and I will cooperate with the relevant authorities in relation to my departure from the country.

I am uncomfortable that the focus of the past weeks has been on me and I hope that we can all now focus on the game and tournament I love. I would like to wish the players, tournament officials, staff, volunteers and fans all the best for the tournament.

Finally, I would like to thank my family, friends, team, supporters, fans and my fellow Serbians for your continued support. You have all been a great source of strength to me.
 

Gavrillo

Clanker
Djokovic reminds me of Ernie McCracken from kingpin, after winning the bowling championship he announces 'I can do anything, I am finally above the law', lots of top sportsmen seem to have this attitude.
 

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