How important is a referendum on the EU to you?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by insert-coin-here, Oct 30, 2008.

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    So how important is a referendum to the members of ARRSE?

    Would you be willing to vote for a conservative party who did not do the right thing and give the public some self determination?

    Has the issue been eclipsed by other events?

    Is the inevitable election our last chance to have a say on our land's future in Europe?
  2. Command_doh

    Command_doh LE Book Reviewer

    Not very.

    As it won't make a blind bit of difference. Our Political 'Masters' have well and truly sold us down the river on the EU already - so much so that we don't know where our Laws start and it's ones end.

    Shame, but it's safe to say we are sitting with the EU flagpole rammed firmly and squarely up our arse.
  3. Intresting.

    I see it is not apathy but rather a sense of futility that informs your opinion.

    Are we really that brow-beaten?
  4. Other events have taken over and I wouldn't put it past ZANU NL to sneak this EU thing through 'under the radar' whilst the media is concentrating on the country spiralling into endless debt.

    If the consrvatives didn't put a referendum in their manifesto it would make them just as bad as the current shower. I feel most of this is courtesy of His Tonyness signing on to this just before he left, 'there you go Gordo, this should f*ck things up for you a bit'. Wonder if cyclops will try the same trick just before the next election when he knows he's going to lose anyway.
  5. I wouldn't vote for the Conservatives full stop. I don't think they have any answers at all, not to the economy, not to the EU, not to anything. I don't think any of the political parties do.

    I'm also deeply of the opinion that rearranging the chairs on the Titanic isn't going to achieve anything. We don't need a new government, we need a new form of government. One which can be held to account on individual issues of national importance, rather than just once every so often.

    Our current Parliamentary system is an 18th Century solution to 18th Century problems that's been black-nastied into the 21st Century, its increasingly not fit for purpose.
  6. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    Interesting thought Smart and I think most people would agree with you on that

    The population of this country do feel massively removed from party politics, exactly because of the political class but are you ever going to get the political class turkeys to vote for christmas

    What alternatives exist or could be put in place
  7. Totally agree.

    Is there an example anywhere in the world that even approaches what you allude to here though?
  8. I'm probably the only (semi)PRO-EU person here, but then I'm Irish and don't count in why did I post?
  9. In the intrest of debate why are you (semi) pro-europe?
  10. Selfish reasons, we are a small not particularly blessed with natural resources Island out in the Atlantic, the only real influence on the World we have is through the EU, treaties/trade deal's ect have the collective bargaining power of 500 million people instead of 4 million (it's the reason why the EU can bargain as an equal with the US/China ect), we have access to the single market, huge deal for us.

    The way I look at it is this, in the future there will be most likely 2 perhap's more large/very large power's, US/China maybe India, Brazil ect hundred's of millions even billion's on people, all screaming for resources, the largest country in Europe is Germany, they'll have about 75 million, there will be cities in China with 2/3s that amount, so why would they care what any one EU country think's? we either work together for our benefit, or let other nations make our choices for us, despite it all the UK and Ireland have a hell of a lot more in common with Germany, France Sweden then we have with India or China.

    Now I'm not saying the whole EU is some magic happy clappy rainbow of joy, there are problem's...big ones, but you either work to change them for the better, you don't just sit on the sideline's yelling abuse and ranting like at a football match and expect the results to change.

    Oh and having been to a few place's out in the boonies, I do have some sense of being European, especially since that's what everyone I met called me, most didn't know where Ireland was, but they knew Europe, got me out of a sticky situation when I was taken for a Yank. :eek:
  11. If you want some more of my reason's I'll post later, have to go now.
  12. Deliberative Democracy, aka Deliberative Polling. Essentially, it's a large-scale focus group only instead of the usual losers, unemployables and half-wits it's run along the same lines as Jury Service. Most importantly the group have access to the same privileged sources of information that officials do and have experts on hand to explain and answer questions.

    Take a look at the bit on 'British Deliberative Polling on the Monarchy' :D . It's open to abuse, true, but less so than our current 'plebs are too thick to make important decisions' system of public planning IMO.

    Edited to add: Hell, it even got the municipal government of Chongqing to change policy. If it can get the CCP to respond to the wishes of the poor and powerless, it's got to have something going for it!
  13. Thanks carrots, me likey velly much.

    Yes I can see where abuse could be a problem (for some reason the ending of the film 'the untouchables' springs to mind) but what a fantasic concept!

    A commitee of the plebs on issues that directly concern them sounds a lot closer to democracy than what we have now.

    How intresting it would be if a party such as UKIP or the glib dumbs became advocates of such a notion.
    It would mean that a party that is not entirely 'fit for task' (all of them as you rightly point out) could become a viable voting option.
  14. Im pro EU, can do us alot of good, if we leave and once we get out of the sandy places we will fall into obscourity, as petergriffin said for me its selfish reasons too. The EU is the next big thing and honestly i can see a "merge" within the next 30-50 years once the China/US debacle is over and everyone is screaming for recources, even though we are the hardest kids on the block were fcuked if we get ganged up on 8) . I see myself as British but as an European too just like an german sees themself as german first and European second, and i want to keep it that way. If we leave it going to be a bad thing for us.
  15. Thanks peter,I was expecting somthing along those lines.

    Personally I am not rabidly or blindly anti european but I have massive misgivings about the whole set up within european government and administration.

    The EU in it's current guise is far to close to the worst types of government europe has seen in the last 100 years for my liking.

    If the Brussles ogliarch became even vaugely accountable and democratic then perhaps a lot of peoples fears over the superstate could be soothed.

    OFC too many greedy and self intrested people in one place is not the best breeding ground for the change that is needed.