How fit should AMS soldiers be?

[LtTrousersnake]

This is a touchy one! Various blogs have touched on this subject!

The BPFA (or BFT as it is now (thx BP20)) is age and sex specific! Should this be the case? There are a few obvious AMS roles which require CMTs, RMOs, RNOs, etc. to be as fit as their teeth arms colleagues. What are these in your opinion? Let's clarify these!

What I want to know is what you guys believe is the minimum fitness standard required and why? Can a 45yr old female RNO consider herself fit for duty if she just passes her BPFA when a 19yr old male CMT runs 10mins 31 secs for his, and fails? Who is more fit for duty and why?

I am a firm believer in a healthy mind/healthy body etc but are the army targets meaningless? Are we keeping fit just to gain kudos or fit in at field units? Is this just a respect issue? Are we in the AMS just insecure? Can we reasonably expect soldiers who are not trained killers to train for trainings sake?

Come on gladiators tell us how you can't stand those fat bulging soldiers and officers in uniform! Come on you donut eaters and tell us how annoying you find the CMTs who can bench press their own body weight but can't do their job.

It has always been my belief that the Army will forgive us for being sh*t soldiers but not for being sh*t medics?

Fire at will!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bedpan2zero]

This is a touchy one! Various blogs have touched on this subject!

The BPFA (or whatever you wish to call it depending on vintage) is age and sex specific! Should this be the case? There are a few obvious AMS roles which require CMTs, RMOs, RNOs, etc. to be as fit as their teeth arms colleagues. What are these in your opinion? Let's clarify these!

What I want to know is what you guys believe is the minimum fitness standard required and why? Can a 45yr old female RNO consider herself fit for duty if she just passes her BPFA when a 19yr old male CMT runs 10mins 31 secs for his, and fails? Who is more fit for duty and why? No amber chat please!

I am a firm believer in a healthy mind/healthy body etc but are the army targets meaningless? Are we keeping fit just to gain kudos or fit in at field units? Is this just a respect issue? Are we in the AMS just insecure? Can we reasonably expect soldiers who are not trained killers to train for trainings sake?

Come on gladiators tell us how you can't stand those fat bulging soldiers and officers in unifrom! Come on you donut eaters and tell us how annoying you find the CMTs who can bench press their own body weight but can't do their job.

It has always been my belief that the Army will forgive us for being sh*t soldiers but not for being sh*t medics?

Fire at will!!!!!!!!!!!!

do keep up trousers

PFT replaced BPFA

No green, amber or red - just pass or fail = no more 300 club.

Medics will always be an easy target for abuse - just because the Infantry done appreciate the way 'we' operate, until shrapnel starts to fly.

And Medics (I mean AMS as a whole) dont do themselves any favours - but giving themselves bad press - by setting bad examples.

I believe that all AMS personnel should be expected to carry out BLS for 3 minutes at the end of the PFT - just to prove that they are fit for role

 

[LtTrousersnake]

Trousers out of 'system' till this October. The last test I did was a BPFA so I look forward to the PFT.

I like your point Bedpan re Medical CFT!

How about this as an equation for personal fitness:

Amount and quality of training x need for extra-marital sex =Fitness
Amount of marital sex + pies + beer + age

 

[whitemouse75]

they should be as fit as any other soldier. the PFT is easily passable by any person regardless of age or gender, it is a MINIMUM requirement not a target to aim for.

 

[Bedpan2zero]

that sounds good - for someone still in trg

just wait until you get posted to a field unit!
even the threat of admin discharge for repeat failure doesnt motivate the sick, lame and lazy (by field unit, I mean within the AMS)

 

[Maj_Boothroyd]

that sounds good - for someone still in trg

just wait until you get posted to a field unit!
even the threat of admin discharge for repeat failure doesnt motivate the sick, lame and lazy (by field unit, I mean within the AMS)

Double check with MCM Div but the last stats I saw showed the AMS had the highest level of non-FE personnel in the Army. I left an Armd AMS unit ^ months ago and that would seem to fit(sic).

 

[Cuddles]

Err..."physician, heal thyself?"

 

[Dilfor]

Go on then, I'll say it, I know you all thought it.....

Female nurses should be well fit, innit? Don't want no mingers bending over me bed.





I'll get my gown....

 

[Big_Libraries]

I have a varied opinion on this, although i agree that all soldiers should meet the minimum standard, it is'nt always possible, through injury downgrade, age or lazyness. If you have soldiers failing due to the lazyness, then there is a system in place in order to correct it, if the system isn't being used, then the fault lies with the management. this applies to all ranks. to long have people complained about individuals doing this and that, its about time SNCO's and above take some of the responsiblity for the miss falls that are often blamed on the system or playstaion generation.

 

[DontMentionTheWar]

I believe that AMS should have the same levels of fitness as everyone else. The minimum that's referred to is just that - a platform on which to build, not a ceiling to aim for.

We are after all, all soldiers first and then tradespeople second, n'est pas?

 

[Narcoleptic.zzz]

Double check with MCM Div but the last stats I saw showed the AMS had the highest level of non-FE personnel in the Army. I left an Armd AMS unit ^ months ago and that would seem to fit(sic).

These figures will always be that way because a Doc sat in a field hospital in Shaibitha etc (I know the hospital has now moved) can still do their job, albeit at a lower medical grading, than a front line soldier or medic etc.
The idea of everyone requiring the same level of fitness and medical grading is difficult to justify with the present desperately low manning levels of the AMS.
We cannot afford to discharge highly trained (and very expensive) medical staff just because they dip below P2FE when evidence shows that they can still perform their role, as was clearly demonstrated in Telic 1 (and still continues in subsequent ops) with the number of medical staff taken at risk due to their medical grading.
Even though they were taken at risk very few were RTU'd (admitedly more on Telic 1 than on subsequent tours due to Naps, asthma etc.etc.) and the vast majority perfomed their operational role perfectly.

 

[gooseman]

How fit should AMS soldiers be?

Very, IMHO, however the truth is that there is a lot of them who aren't, and can't be ARRSE'd to do anything about it

 

[LtTrousersnake]

Maybe if we all went to work naked, the fatties would be embarrassed into more exercise?

 

[Ventress]

Moobs aren't a bad thing.

 

[LtTrousersnake]

Moobs and back fat! The ladies love em!

 

[primroseandblue]

I think that the management's attitude to such things is usually bourne out in their policy towards providing physical training to their troops in work's time. How many units out there provide compulsory PT as part of a wider fitness programme at least three times a week? How many units look after their downgraded personnel by requiring them to parade with their colleagues and train within their limitations and with the guidance of a PTI or physio?

Being fit enables soldiers to better cope with stress, long hours, lack of sleep etc. Group PT is a powerfull team builder and makes the participant feel good about themselves. It also breaks up the day helping to provide a more interesting and stimulating working environment.

If the hierarchy are really serious about their soldiers being fit (& they bl00dy should be) then PT should be prescribed on a compulsory basis and programmed into shift patterns and working days of all soldiers. If MDHU contracts do not allow this then they need to be renegotiated. Simply expecting staff to do all their own training is not acceptable (they should be encouraged to do some or play sport etc). After all, how many of us are expected to do our weapon training, CBRN or law of armed conflict training after a busy days work on a self teach basis?

 

[LtTrousersnake]

I think that the management's attitude to such things is usually bourne out in their policy towards providing physical training to their troops in work's time. How many units out there provide compulsory PT as part of a wider fitness programme at least three times a week? How many units look after their downgraded personnel by requiring them to parade with their colleagues and train within their limitations and with the guidance of a PTI or physio?

Being fit enables soldiers to better cope with stress, long hours, lack of sleep etc. Group PT is a powerfull team builder and makes the participant feel good about themselves. It also breaks up the day helping to provide a more interesting and stimulating working environment.

If the hierarchy are really serious about their soldiers being fit (& they bl00dy should be) then PT should be prescribed on a compulsory basis and programmed into shift patterns and working days of all soldiers. If MDHU contracts do not allow this then they need to be renegotiated. Simply expecting staff to do all their own training is not acceptable (they should be encouraged to do some or play sport etc). After all, how many of us are expected to do our weapon training, CBRN or law of armed conflict training after a busy days work on a self teach basis?

This is the direction the AMS must take! I personally would love to down tools and do physical training of any description rather than plod on to meet DMS targerts. In my 12 years of reckonable service in the AMS I have not been afforded this luxury(!*!). When I was serving in a field unit PT was before blimming breakfast and then stag on to a full days work. You can imagine that at this time in the morning (the training was usually circuits or a run) effort was minimal with the soliders speeding up only to run past the RSMs window.

The unit rugby team and football team had no problem with fitness but this generally involved the guys and girls who were already motivated. These chaps and chapesses hated running and circuits as much as many others but kept fit in other ways. It is my opinion that all personnel must be allowed the oppurtunity to train in a manner that suits them best.

When working in primary care I always made exceptions for soldiers working with me to attend unit PT sessions up to 3x weekly. This was always at the expense of clinical effectivness and p*ssed off the civvy staff.

The pressure to meet targets is overbearing in secondary care and primary care. I agree that the MDHU contracts must all be re-written otherwise the fat medic situation will continue. But there are a whole host of other factors here which have been discussed in the Blog on military hospitals.

My experience of MDHU life is that civvy managers and Senior Admin Officers place the emphasis on the military staff being the same and equal to the civvies. The opposite should be the case and the military staff should be reminded of their service identity by having a different daily routine including physical training. This would not sit easily with the civvies (who would never understand why) and would require balls of steel to implement. The budget holders would never allow it so many AMS personnel will continue to be unfit and lack a true sense of service identity.

Having said all this, service personnel must embrace the spirit of fitness and health. Many smoke, don't get enough sleep and eat poorly. They would require less fitness time if they improved their lifestyles.

 

[pat_the_man]

tbh i was very fit when i was in and it does help loads because you end up carrying half the regiment which is a ball ache but gives the AMS a fighting chance against the "handbag" opinion

also in my opinion the AMS (especially CMT's), should have a good knowledge of all Army trades, as u could be working with any of them especially teeth arms and, we need to fit in and understand how it all works. making the AMS a better functioning corps amongst all other corps and regiments under the cross sword emblem.