How do you raise a son?

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
A better example might be from that article with the woman teaching her sons that the best way to intervene in situations (violence, bullying etc) is with words, or to just submit or walk away. This is just remarkably blind to reality. One main reason violence occurs is precisely because words have no effect, submission leads to more bullying, and walking away doesn't work when they chase you. All of those are fine first approaches, but you need to address what to do in the very common instance that they just don't work. I suspect her sons have a much better grasp on reality than she does.
To quote Heinlein again:

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms".

Intellectuals have spent centuries persuading their civilisations that violence is pointless and ineffective, yet nations still have Armies.
 
Grandson yesterday , (Dad had been on his run and had come back to the motorhome with bacon and rolls

"OK young man , get the camp table out and set up (8 years old done the table erecting course ) now go into the gas locker and bring out the little gas cooker ... what, you want me to get it out the box , on your bike!"

"good lad! now light it , get the frying pan out and spray some oil on it then put the bacon in it!"

showed him what to do , let hm get on with it while we all watched , cooked the rashers 2 at a time , then put them all in the pan to heat up again while he used the F sharp knife to cut the rolls and butter them

Spikey blond hair cooking in a rangers top , looked like a miniature Gordon Ramsey

We are now home , he's told all his family and mates about him cooking the best bacon rolls he's ever had

it was great to see such a sense of achievement, and watching him do something he will never forget

some things you just can't buy (and I am still the best Grandad he has........so f uck you Grandad Jeezo)
 
Not sure about the latter. There are plenty of instances where it is about taking part, not winning - teamwork is a bit hard to teach without that principle.

Team work can be learnt elsewhere, it doesn't have to be on the field of play.
My kids primary school stopped awarding prizes to winners at sports days and gave everyone a certificate and clapped them all equally. Life isn't about equal outcomes, it's about disappointment, tribulations and success.

I post this last year, but the point still stands. Kids need to understand the concept of winners and losers, and not every outcome is all harmonious and expected

My son did Rugby from 8-11yrs of age at the local club. It was very easy to spot the kids who went to the local large and prestigious Private School in the next town, and the local kids (my son). The Privately educated kids had a desire to win, and to work hard to get the win. The local kids, all had the mindset of just turning up and enjoying it.

The concept of 'we're all winners' and the distinct lack of competition at the local Primary schools makes for a generation who feel that striving to win is not the end game. It's ridiculous
 
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I think the second is not as limited as you believe; the sort of parent who wants to raise a feminist son, or an activist daughter (and I'd say they're out there in numbers, not just in the elite) really believes that their POV is the only truth, and anything else is evil.

A mate of mine (a squaddie no less but thoroughly under the thumb) had a kid last year with his girlfriend who is very much like that, she often posts on Facebook about toxic masculinity and other feminist issues/causes and how she'll be tuning their son in to those ideals. I don't think any of us would want to raise their son to be misogynistic or rapey towards women, but going full on preachy activist with him from an early age when he just wants to be a kid isn't the way to go in my opinion.
I've got a cousin who will be in his late 20's now who has completely severed his relationship with his parents. They were very "modern parents" in the 90's with him, he wasn't allowed to play with toy guns or anything like that, every toy had to be educational, all his normal young boy behaviours had to be curbed and controlled, and he grew into a resentful teenager who completely rebelled against them and later permanently fell out with them and went off to do his own thing.
 
I’ve taught both my older girls to weld
And I’ve taught my 11 year old one well enough to trust her with a takeoff.
They allready intimidate the boys intellectually, so I’m setting a high bar for future boyfriends ( and I’ll keep the 308, and a shovel, just in case !
 
I’ve taught both my older girls to weld
And I’ve taught my 11 year old one well enough to trust her with a takeoff.
They allready intimidate the boys intellectually, so I’m setting a high bar for future boyfriends ( and I’ll keep the 308, and a shovel, just in case !
Why do you think you'll have a say?
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Team work can be learnt elsewhere, it doesn't have to be on the field of play.
My kids primary school stopped awarding prizes to winners at sports days and gave everyone a certificate and clapped them all equally. Life isn't about equal outcomes, it's about disappointment, tribulations and success.

I post this last year, but the point still stands. Kids need to understand the concept of winners and losers, and not every outcome is all harmonious and expected
My point was more that if you cannot teach someone that different tasks need to be allocated to different individuals in order to succeed, and that not all tasks are equally visible or glorified, then you revert to a situation where there is no teamwork because everyone is trying to individually hog the limelight. This is often the basic mechanism of groups that don't display teamwork.
 
My bold - This in spades. I have noticed too that off-spring of anxiety ridden wrecks are themselves showing signs of becoming fragile and weak adults.
Yes, anxiety is metaphorically contagious. If you spend all your time hanging around someone who constantly tells you that you need space and can't do things yourself, you begin to believe it. It's not just parents, you can spot it develop in teenagers (almost always girls). If one of a group gets a note about anxiety issues you can pretty much guarantee a couple of their mates will go the same way within 6 months.

It's not helped by people lumping it all together. Some kids are genuinely extremely anxious about certain situations to the point it becomes a phobia and they do need a bit of special treatment. That's the ones that self harm, develop tics, become physically ill and vomit etc. Most of them are just a bit nervous and would almost certainly benefit from being told to get on with things and stop complaining.

An observation I posted a while back on this media, is the view of how poor teachers are as parents. You would think learning about and undertaking the education of the young would make you pretty good with your own kids, but the teachers I know are bringing up their Gen Z via some bizarre emotional syllabus I've never heard of.
Out of interest, are these parents primary or secondary teachers? If secondary, do they teach a proper subject (maths, science etc.) or a hobby like drama and photography? I'm curious if my bias is correct as that description doesn't match the parents I work with and whose kids I've met.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I've got a cousin who will be in his late 20's now who has completely severed his relationship with his parents. They were very "modern parents" in the 90's with him, he wasn't allowed to play with toy guns or anything like that, every toy had to be educational, all his normal young boy behaviours had to be curbed and controlled, and he grew into a resentful teenager who completely rebelled against them and later permanently fell out with them and went off to do his own thing.
It's almost as if telling people that their thoughts and instincts are inherently bad isn't effective at changing behaviour. Other than Trump and Brexit, how could we possibly have known?
 
Out of interest, are these parents primary or secondary teachers? If secondary, do they teach a proper subject (maths, science etc.) or a hobby like drama and photography? I'm curious if my bias is correct as that description doesn't match the parents I work with and whose kids I've met.

All Primary, bar one

It's exclusively the mum's. The dads have a multitude of jobs, but the common theme is female primary school teachers.

There was a teaching couple, dad at a prestigious local private school, the mum a part-time teacher at an Academy in the next town. But lala tofu eating types, who have produced a fair pair of neurotic kids
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
A mate of mine (a squaddie no less but thoroughly under the thumb) had a kid last year with his girlfriend who is very much like that, she often posts on Facebook about toxic masculinity and other feminist issues/causes and how she'll be tuning their son in to those ideals. I don't think any of us would want to raise their son to be misogynistic or rapey towards women, but going full on preachy activist with him from an early age when he just wants to be a kid isn't the way to go in my opinion.
I've got a cousin who will be in his late 20's now who has completely severed his relationship with his parents. They were very "modern parents" in the 90's with him, he wasn't allowed to play with toy guns or anything like that, every toy had to be educational, all his normal young boy behaviours had to be curbed and controlled, and he grew into a resentful teenager who completely rebelled against them and later permanently fell out with them and went off to do his own thing.

A friend of my daughter has highly religious parents, although but I guess their neurotic and controlling persona may not be exclusively because of it.

Anyway, youngest daughter (now 17) meets my daughter for lunch or trips into town., When they're out, the friend will buy whole bags of doughnuts and will scoff the lot. She will also squirrel sweet treats away in her school bag for when she's going home.

We though that she was bulimic or anorexic, she's very slim, as are the parents, but apparently no sugary foods, junk food or treats are allowed in the house, so she binges when she's out as it's her only chance. Her school lunch is just bread and butter with fruit and biscuits.

Her older brother came home from uni for the holidays and brought home some fast food and was eating it in the house. The mum told him, in front of the sister, that she had to go outside and sit in the garden to calm down as the sight of him eating the junk stuff was too much for her.

It'll be interesting how her life will change when she's at Uni next year and will have 100% freedom to eat and drink what she likes. We predict binge eating and drinking, boys and a decline in her studies
 
All Primary, bar one

It's exclusively the mum's. The dads have a multitude of jobs, but the common theme is female primary school teachers.

There was a teaching couple, dad at a prestigious local private school, the mum a part-time teacher at an Academy in the next town. But lala tofu eating types, who have produced a fair pair of neurotic kids
Cheers, good to know my conscious bias is still producing useful predictions.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
It'll be interesting how her life will change when she's at Uni next year and will have 100% freedom to eat and drink what she likes. We predict binge eating and drinking, boys and a decline in her studies
Would that not be a slightly more extreme version of what everyone else goes through?
 
Would that not be a slightly more extreme version of what everyone else goes through?

Possibly, but what she does now, over-indulging in sugary foods because it's only chance, is obscene.,

There's excess and there's excess
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Possibly, but what she does now, over-indulging in sugary foods because it's only chance, is obscene.,

There's excess and there's excess
It's quite sad, I'll give you that. Hopefully at uni she'll dive in then even out and develop her own standards of acceptability. Not a given unfortunately, but worth hoping for.
 

Blues&Twos

Swinger
I see this a lot with the ones over here at York university, they behave very oddly at times in the shops, sometimes like spoiled brats but most times they look like rabbits caught in the headlights at having to do normal stuff. One the other week nearly leapt into the hedge at the sight of my dog when she managed to peel her eyes off her phone to look where she was walking for a second. My dog is a Pug crossed with a Jack Russell.
Based primarily out of York and surrounding ambulance stations and can safely say that the various calls I attend to our international student population has eased my fears of a communist takeover, because they’re honestly ******* useless at basic life skills.
 

Blues&Twos

Swinger
Plus, through my wife's job, it's shocking to hear of the amount of teenagers now on some type of depression or anxiety medication.
It’s not just teens, practically every patient I attend below the age of 35 is on either citalopram, sertraline or fluoxetine. They’re all either depressed, have PTSD (and don’t get me started on the stories they give of what caused it), or are crippled by anxiety.

The current generation are utterly fucked, and I say that as a 30 year old myself.
 
Based primarily out of York and surrounding ambulance stations and can safely say that the various calls I attend to our international student population has eased my fears of a communist takeover, because they’re honestly ******* useless at basic life skills.

Our home grown teenagers are bad enough for it, but the Chinese students are an absolute nightmare for having their faces constantly glued to their phones while walking the streets and just wandering out in front of cars without even looking up. Even a blast on the horn or a screech of tyres when having to brake sharply barely registers with them.
 

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