How do YOU address a Clerk of Works?

#1
While following some links on another thread, I came across this:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Clerk_of_Works
Definition of Clerk of Works

Clerks of Works are the most highly qualified non-commissioned tradesmen in the Royal Engineers. The qualification can be held in three specialisations: Electrical, Mechanical and Construction. Clerks of Works are immediately promoted to Staff Sergeant on completion of the training course. Warrant Officers Class 2 hold the appointment of Clerk of Works Quartermaster Sergeant and Warrant Officers Class 1 hold the appointment of Clerk of Works Sergeant Major.
On a different page on the same site:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Warrant_Officer
In the British Army, there are two warrant ranks, warrant officer class 2 (WO2) and warrant officer class 1 (WO1), which is the senior of the two. It used to be more common to refer to these ranks as WOII and WOI (using Roman instead of Arabic numerals). The rank immediately below WO2 is staff sergeant.

Every warrant officer has an appointment, and is usually referred to by his appointment rather than by his rank.
WOs are officially designated using their rank and appointment. For instance, WO2 (CSM) Smith or WO1 (BM) Jones. However, they would usually be referred to as CSM Smith and Bandmaster Jones. WO2s are often referred to as Sergeant Major, Corporal Major, Quartermaster Sergeant or Quartermaster Corporal (or Q) as appropriate, but WO1s are only ever referred to using their full appointment or its abbreviation (RSM White or Garrison Sergeant Major Black, for instance).
Is this true? Did you ever (or have you seen somebody else) walk up to a WO2 Clk Wks and address him as anything other than Q or Sir, according to the relative rank? (Note: "walk up to" - behind the back references don't count :D ).

If I can get some official confirmation (ARRSE is sufficiently official for my purposes), there'll be some changes in my unit's current practices. :twisted:
 
#4
with a large black marker pen.

then a second class stamp.

laters.
 
#8
My fault, as I didn't read the quotes correctly - missed the "(or Q)" bit. But it still leaves the WO1 puzzle. I've come across a lot of WO1s that will insist that they're not Sergeant Majors when addressed as such by non-sappers, yet the quotes show that this, with the Clk Wks prefix, is actually the correct address.

Now, I can handle the use of terms such as RSM Black or GSM White, but how are you supposed to pronounce the abbreviation Clk Wks SM? (if it's true that "WO1s are only ever referred to using their full appointment or its abbreviation"). According to the quote "Mister Green" would be wrong.

Stand back for Round 2....
 
#9
The problem here is that the articles/quotes you are using come from the Wordiq website, which inturn sources a lot of its material from the Wiki encyclopedia website which almost anybody can change or update.

As for this particular problem "Warrant Officers Class 2 hold the appointment of Clerk of Works Quartermaster Sergeant and Warrant Officers Class 1 hold the appointment of Clerk of Works Sergeant Major" refer to the system in the Royal Canadian Engineers if my memory serves me correctly.

As for the other problems, in the Corp WO2 Clerk of Works cannot be referred to as QMSI or Q as they have not completed a QMSI course and should be either referred to either by their rank or 'Sir'. What normally happens is the 'Q' honourific is used as it easier to say and stops the word 'Sir' sticking in your average guys throat.

Similar case with WO1 Clerk of works. They should either be referred to by either their rank or simply 'Mr.......'.

Basically it boils down to sum cnut not knowing his siht and amending Wiki, thus causing the problem on WordIQ.
 
#10
While this sounds plausible, the Canadians use the term "Construction Engineering Superintendent" instead of Clerk of Works (C)
and have Chief Warrant Officers, rather than WO1s. I can't help thinking that Wiki must have had an authoritative source for the original entry, even if that's now obsolete.

Now that it becomes clear that WO2 Clk Wks shouldn't be addressed as "Q", can we expect a spate of them being addressed as "CW," perhaps even further shortened as "Dubya"? :twisted:
 
#12
Chief_Two said:
putteesinmyhands said:
While this sounds plausible, the Canadians have Chief Warrant Officers
But not to be confused with the US CWO ranks :!:
Certainly not! The Canadian Warrant Officers step up from SSgt (IIRC, and I will check). The position of US Warrant Officers is better explained here: http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=16149/start=30.html

edited following checking:

I'm slightly out. Similar structure as British Army, but different terminology. Progression from Sgt to Warrant Officer to Master Warrant Officer to Chief Warrant Officer, so their WO would equate to our SSgt.
 
#16
Guys, you've been mislead... a WO2 Clerk of Works is addressed as "Q" through tradition based on his appointment as a QMSI - this has nothing to do with the QMSI course for combat engineers any more than it has for an RQMS or a QMSI PT. Even then, it is only if he allows it it as all Warrant Officers are entitled to be addressed as "Sir ". The book that covers a lot of this is the Manual of Cermonial Drill... or some such title.

BTW, anyone who thinks they can publically address a WO2 of any CEG disrespectfully and get away with it must belong to a different Corps than I was proud to serve in.

and FFS if he's a WO2 he's spent 6 years as a SSGT whereas most others will only spend 3 so a lot he's overtaken will have gone past again - please... move on and get over it!
 
#17
Good (insert appropriate time of day)

clerk of works, how are you this fine (insert appropriate time of day)

easy really
 
#18
sapper_steve said:
Guys, you've been mislead... a WO2 Clerk of Works is addressed as "Q" through tradition based on his appointment as a QMSI - this has nothing to do with the QMSI course for combat engineers any more than it has for an RQMS or a QMSI PT. Even then, it is only if he allows it it as all Warrant Officers are entitled to be addressed as "Sir ". The book that covers a lot of this is the Manual of Cermonial Drill... or some such title.

BTW, anyone who thinks they can publically address a WO2 of any CEG disrespectfully and get away with it must belong to a different Corps than I was proud to serve in.

and FFS if he's a WO2 he's spent 6 years as a SSGT whereas most others will only spend 3 so a lot he's overtaken will have gone past again - please... move on and get over it!
WARNING, WARNING, WARNING

Sense of humour bypass detected :D :D :D

Just a guess here, but are you/was you a CoW by any chance :?

No wonder they get grief :p
 
#19
In the my days a B&C it was normal what does that Cnut want , sorry didnt see you there sir/ Staff or boy :D
 
#20
sapper_steve said:
Guys, you've been mislead... a WO2 Clerk of Works is addressed as "Q" through tradition based on his appointment as a QMSI - this has nothing to do with the QMSI course for combat engineers any more than it has for an RQMS or a QMSI PT. Even then, it is only if he allows it it as all Warrant Officers are entitled to be addressed as "Sir ". The book that covers a lot of this is the Manual of Cermonial Drill... or some such title.

BTW, anyone who thinks they can publically address a WO2 of any CEG disrespectfully and get away with it must belong to a different Corps than I was proud to serve in.

and FFS if he's a WO2 he's spent 6 years as a SSGT whereas most others will only spend 3 so a lot he's overtaken will have gone past again - please... move on and get over it!
But he had only been in the Army 6 years before he went on the course, so he already has the head start before the other blokes are SSgts.

Sparky
 
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