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How Do We Create a Fairer Society? (Without destroying everything)

Telling people that they’ve never had it so good when their experience says otherwise is pointless.

Their perceived experience might be a better way of putting it.
Some people like to say they are hard done by no matter how good they have it.

I'll use these white people as an example.


The scousers were on 2100 quid a month tax free benefits. There are many people in this country who dont earn that. Yet they believe that they are the victims because the nasty government only want to give them 670 quid a month for them to do **** all.
That is echoed up and down the country, the main difference between them and black people is that they dont have the option of blaming it on racism.
 
BAME activists don't want to be equal, they are already treated better, they want better than better.

If they had equality then the quotas would go, as would the hate crimes and hate speech laws. The Police might actually be able to do their jobs and stop and search in London and save a lot of BAME lives but that's not enough, they want more.
Quotas merely maintain the status quo. An end to segregation is required. Everywhere that segregation occurs we have trouble - NI is a good example. Segregation breeds sectarianism, also maintains existing bias, promotes fear, restricts understanding. Put an end to the ghettos, absorb everyone into the same system, illustrate the equalities on offer and define, and require adherence, to the responsibilities needed for membership. That is what creates a stake in society.
 
The trouble is as the shortage of migrant workers proved a lot of those unemployed who could work have no interest in working -

Stop enabling that attitude with a benefits for life lifestyle and you stop perpetuating an underclass

We also need to pay them more than they would get in benefits. Real wages have declined over the years and you can't get much bang for your buck anymore. This is especially the case when you consider house prices and proper healthy food, there is no incentive for dolies to go to work if they can afford fags, booze, a 50" plasma telly and a PS5. Their money should be replaced by vouchers for food, clothes and other essentials. If they want a new iphone they should get a job to pay for it.
 
Stop using acronyms like BAME, it is divisive and racist ! Don't see the colour, see the people !

Complaints about racism are a cheap excuse for ignorance and bigotry, usually directed against the police and, anybody else who disagrees with 'Black Lies Matter' !

Anybody who, is psychologically damaged by a statue, has bigger problems than perceived racism, anybody that thinks that, pulling down an inanimate object will in any way improve their life, is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land (my apologies if I've offended the Cuckoos ?).

Why is it that the "Windrush Generation" came to the UK, endured real racism yet, dealt with it by seeing it for what it was, ignored the ********* and got on with life, knowing they had a better life in the UK, than back in the West Indies and, not all 'whiteys' were privileged !

The Asians that were kicked out of Uganda and,Kenya came to the UK and worked their nuts off (having nothing when they arrived) and contributed.

These people are sheep and, should be pitied. They are taken in by myth, lies and, innuendo spewed out by people and, organisations that feed the bile for their own ends.....you can't have an anti-racist charridee if, there isn't any racism ! If there isn't any racism.......stir the shit and, make some up !

The bottom line is, there are thousands of people from all ethnic backgrounds in the UK, who don't feel disadvantaged by the colour of their skin or race and, have ignored all the negative feedback from these tossers who choose to blame everybody but themselves for their position in life.

As Morgan Freeman explained, when asked "How do we get rid of racism"?, his answer was..."Don't talk about it,I won't call you a white man, you don't call me a black man"!

The sooner a certain minority part of society stops being racist, the sooner racism will disappear !
 
I'm out and about most days, in different environments. I know and regularly meet people of BAME. Some have done better than me in life, some haven't.

I think this whole 'unfair society' thing is a complete myth.

I treat people how I would expect to be treated myself, regardless of what flavour they are. I really couldn't give a sh*t. I expect I'm in the majority. The minority that do give a sh*t what race someone is, is represented by all flavours, not just whitey.

Everybody needs to stop publicly apologising for things that are out of their control and for things they don't know what they are apologising for. It's farcical.

The thought occurred to me the other day that if I am walking through a public place - especially a university town, and everyone took to one knee because I had stumbled into some symbolism or protest or other, would I join the masses to 'fit in' and avoid confrontation? Or would I just keep walking? The answer is I would stay on both feet, knowing full well that these days, by default, that now makes me a racist.

I would image there are a lot of BAME who are quietly weeping about what is going on.

As for any future BLM protests that are planned, I can guarantee the headlines and story templates have already been written focussing on 'XRW violence targeting'peaceful protesters'.

This recent episode has put racial equality back 30-40 years. Well played BLM.
 

endure

GCM
We also need to pay them more than they would get in benefits. Real wages have declined over the years and you can't get much bang for your buck anymore. This is especially the case when you consider house prices and proper healthy food, there is no incentive for dolies to go to work if they can afford fags, booze, a 50" plasma telly

They stopped making plasma TVs in 2014 ;-)
 
Anybody who, is psychologically damaged by a statue, has bigger problems than perceived racism, anybody that thinks that, pulling down an inanimate object will in any way improve their life, is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land (my apologies if I've offended the Cuckoos ?).

You are missing the point and I quote

"Don’t you see that having a statue or a place named after a slave trader is glorifying him and commending him? Ancestral relatives of slaves live in Bristol how would it make you feel to have to walk or drive past a statue of a slave trader or building named after one when he orchestrated the suffering of your ancestors"

I declined to point out that if that's the criteria than just about everyone on this isle is the descendent of a slave and we need to remove - Bath, Colchester London, Hadrians Wall, How many Norman Castles, rename countless roads etc.
 
It won't be considered "fair" by the left until everyone who votes Tory is dead or in political re-education camps and anyone considered "poor" is handed a huge salary regardless of whether they have the skills or aspiration normally required to reach such a position.
 

endure

GCM
You are missing the point and I quote

"Don’t you see that having a statue or a place named after a slave trader is glorifying him and commending him? Ancestral relatives of slaves live in Bristol how would it make you feel to have to walk or drive past a statue of a slave trader or building named after one when he orchestrated the suffering of your ancestors"

I declined to point out that if that's the criteria than just about everyone on this isle is the descendent of a slave and we need to remove - Bath, Colchester London, Hadrians Wall, How many Norman Castles, rename countless roads etc.


It ought to be pointed out that, according to Wiki, the last US slave died in 1971 rather than a thousand years ago. That's within the lifetime of a lot of people alive today.

 
Quotas merely maintain the status quo. An end to segregation is required. Everywhere that segregation occurs we have trouble - NI is a good example. Segregation breeds sectarianism, also maintains existing bias, promotes fear, restricts understanding. Put an end to the ghettos, absorb everyone into the same system, illustrate the equalities on offer and define, and require adherence, to the responsibilities needed for membership. That is what creates a stake in society.

You can never have a fully integrated society if one part of the society is treated differently than another based on their skin colour.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
You can never have a fully integrated society if one part of the society is treated differently than another based on their skin colour.
When I started this thread I was aware that race would cone into it but I think it’s wider than that. There is a whole underclass Of a variety of different colours and backgrounds who do feel they have a stake in society.

Life is unfair for them. It’s the life they are born into. That’s not really their fault. Working hard at school and at work may get them out of it but they don’t see any examples of that. The examples they see are people succeeding (in terms of immediate gratification) through criminality.
 
You are missing the point and I quote

"Don’t you see that having a statue or a place named after a slave trader is glorifying him and commending him? Ancestral relatives of slaves live in Bristol how would it make you feel to have to walk or drive past a statue of a slave trader or building named after one when he orchestrated the suffering of your ancestors"

I declined to point out that if that's the criteria than just about everyone on this isle is the descendent of a slave and we need to remove - Bath, Colchester London, Hadrians Wall, How many Norman Castles, rename countless roads etc.

I would also posit that, all the Parishes, Towns and, Cities in the West Indies should suffer the same fate, if only Black Lies Matter and, the slave descendants living in this country had bothered to read the 'Black History' they keep bringing up ?
 
When I started this thread I was aware that race would cone into it but I think it’s wider than that. There is a whole underclass Of a variety of different colours and backgrounds who do feel they have a stake in society.

Life is unfair for them. It’s the life they are born into. That’s not really their fault. Working hard at school and at work may get them out of it but they don’t see any examples of that. The examples they see are people succeeding (in terms of immediate gratification) through criminality.

And ?
 
It ought to be pointed out that, according to Wiki, the last US slave died in 1971 rather than a thousand years ago. That's within the lifetime of a lot of people alive today.


That's a reasonable point - but then how far back do you go before you draw the lines and how do you draw them - because if the criteria is indirect involvement but happened to people I may be related to then you're opening up for Mandela's statue to be removed.


Because the subject matter isn't racism or slavery - its become fought black people and then progressed to had the wrong opinion - but here its stopped being BLM its the far left hijackers who are determined to culturally cleanse the UK with an ever widening definition of wrong think.

See Baden Powell - he was a Nazi - well no he wasn't he thought it had merit like many people disillusioned by democracy in the 30s who turned to communism or fascism as an alternative - it wasn't the vile ideology it became (or perhaps more accurately wasn't recognised as) so were applying hindsight. Of course being a committed communist is still ok because despite being every bit as murderous as fascism its adherents have dissembled and excused everything and by hiding behind and exploiting minority groups they've outmanoeuvred moderate voices.

Which brings us to today - Antifa hiding behind BLM and provoking violent confrontations because they wish to usurp democracy -

People have been suspended and lost jobs (following white liberal outrage) because they dont agree with white privilege

On what grounds - there are black people who dispute white privilege and disagree with BLM - so why is it racist to agree with them.

By effectively making it an offense to disagree with BLM on white privilege
What were saying is those other Bame folk their opinion doesn't count, we dont need to listen to black people if they dont share our opinion.

That isn't just racist its patronising and reducing black contributions to little more than nodding dogs.

Apologies - the rants not really dorected at you - but this racist hypocrisy and this idea that the left owns minority votes - that you must vote a certain way if your black - gay - Muslim - I find truly vile - It further grips me of course that because I dont think that way im the racist.

The far left of course frequently declare tories scum and speaks of them in terms reminiscent of those used against undesirables in 1930s Germany. Because with the prevalence of identity politics its ok to be nasty to those you dislike - it just seems really offensive to do so and claim you're their ally.
 
When I started this thread I was aware that race would cone into it but I think it’s wider than that. There is a whole underclass Of a variety of different colours and backgrounds who do feel they have a stake in society.

Life is unfair for them. It’s the life they are born into. That’s not really their fault. Working hard at school and at work may get them out of it but they don’t see any examples of that. The examples they see are people succeeding (in terms of immediate gratification) through criminality.

I disagree with that completely.

I grew up with feck all, had to make a coal fire in the morning to warm the house and get hot water until I was 15, wore hand me down clothes most of my life and was on free school dinners throughout. Im not talking the 1950s either, I'm talking the 90's. I'd like to think I've done well for myself, so living proof, I won't have anyone make excuses about lack of opportunity because they are vast. You just need discipline and the will.

Anyone no matter what background you come from can be successful in life, you just have to achieve what you set out to achieve to be successful.

But in the same breath not everyone gets what they want, people need to be realistic with their expectations based on reality. That's not to say 'don't have a dream', its saying 'Don't live in a dream world'.

It's not about having someone from the ghetto own a mansion and drive a chrome bentley, it's about having a steady job that pays well enough to live a clean life and striving for home ownership, getting married and having kids and bringing them up to go 1 better than you and maybe they go a little bit further with their life and ambitions.
 
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Stop telling everyone they need a degree - lets bring back focus on real non academic subjects (rather than dumbed down degrees in "is Donald Duck more influential than Alvin") - teach people who aren't academic a trade - a skillset relevant to life.

This was torn down along with grammer schools because youre removing opportunities from people (and saying theyre stupid** ) - but ignores many of these people were never going to have a chance of succeeding at higher education - so instead of acknowledging this we thrust them into worthless mickey mouse degrees - debt and failure.

All because of a flawed aspiration to have everyone go to university rather than just the educationally elite and no I wouldn't be a grad student under my own criteria - at last not in my careers field - my maths topped out at HND level - the words J notation and imaginary numbers still give me palpatations. I have thought of doing a degree in History - but im under no illusions that would lead to work.

**Sadly a real issue in the UK - work with your hands you must be stupid - - I did once have the pleasure of pointing out to a chap - who declared I seemed to smart to be a mechanic - that I wasn't getting out of bed for his pay

The demise of trades being taught to young people happened long before the philosophy of university education being made available to the masses became an aspiration.

Back in the sixties and seventies, apprenticeships to teach young people useful skills such as electrical work, plumbing work and a whole raft of other things that would give young people the ability for their whole lives to earn a decent living were scrapped en mass as a cost saving measure.

All those apprenticeship schemes were replaced with the infamous YTS scheme which was basically a subsidised cheap labour scheme that companies used to employ youngsters without having to pay them anything because those on it got a pittance of a government allowance.

It was a Thatcher government idea which was implemented at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties.

In high street retail for example, you could walk around a shopping centre and there were handwritten signs in the shop windows asking for YTS workers. The scheme lasted for six months for each individual so after six months, the shop assistants were sacked and a new sign went up in the window asking for YTS workers again who would be taken on for six months until the next cycle.

The move to make university level education a goal for everybody was a Blair government policy started after Labour came into power in 1997.

A revamped apprenticeship scheme similar to those operating in the 70’s/80’s would be an excellent way forward but it needs to be properly structured and funded so that it does attract young recruits and they get the industry recognised qualifications they need to go out into the world and get on.

It needs to be seen as a viable alternative to the university path to a career with professional qualifications that allow youngsters to hit the ground running once they have completed the course and passed the exams.
 
Life is unfair for them. It’s the life they are born into. That’s not really their fault. Working hard at school and at work may get them out of it but they don’t see any examples of that. The examples they see are people succeeding (in terms of immediate gratification) through criminality.

Exactly and this is my Problem with BLM (particularly in the US) they focus on black deaths* at white cops hands and yell racism - They ignore that more cops are killed by blacks that black men are more likely to be involved in crime, nor do they care about black on black violence which kills far more because that doesn't support the organisers victim narrative .

My problem with Anti BLM is of course that they cite the accurate statistics but dont address why that is -
Neither side addresses it because it shames both republican and democrats.

You wont stop blacks dying at a high rate in the US by creating a world without racism because race today is not the significant driver its the poverty trap** if you just looked at whites on sink estates vs blacks on sink estates criminality would be much the same.

BLM is fighting the wrong battles, for the wrong reasons against the wrong target.


*But only ever career criminals
**Which it has to be said does have roots for many in the previous racist policies
 
The demise of trades being taught to young people happened long before the philosophy of university education being made available to the masses became an aspiration.

Snip brevity

Dont disagree with any of that - with the exception of YTS a bit - I agree that's what it was - but that wasn't the idea - it was supposed to equate to apprenticeships again
Another good idea but failed in practice policy enacted by parliament
 
Quotas merely maintain the status quo. An end to segregation is required. Everywhere that segregation occurs we have trouble - NI is a good example. Segregation breeds sectarianism, also maintains existing bias, promotes fear, restricts understanding. Put an end to the ghettos, absorb everyone into the same system, illustrate the equalities on offer and define, and require adherence, to the responsibilities needed for membership. That is what creates a stake in society.

Ghettoes aren't a government plot. They exist because, rather than trying to integrate people of certain ethnic backgrounds gravitate towards their own and, councils rather than make sure ghettoes don't occur, take the easy route and, house like with like, sometimes knowing that if they don't, the race card is played !

N.I. is a bad example. I lived in West London at a time when it was an Irish enclave that made Kilburn look like a village. I had Irish neighbours from both sides of the Border and, the Religious divide (at one time,one of my Mum's neighbours was a Mrs McCluskey, Better know as Bernadette Devlin). They lived in peace and harmony.

Sunday lunchtimes, we the kids would lurk around Shepherds Bush Green for the pubs closing. Out of the pubs, onto the Green, a fracas between the local Irish drinkers and, the interlopers from Notting Hill,Ladbrooke Grove and, N.Kensington in general would start and, all of a sudden a mass of people would just move all over the Green. The Irish were 'Irish', no distinction, the Black guys were..Black but, most importantly not Irish and, not from "The Bush". It was always reported in the Local Rag as, "Hooligans disturb the peace on a Sunday", it was never reported as racist !

Those same Irish neighbours, always admitted they couldn't even acknowledge each other in Ulster.

I would even have a problem with the word 'tolerance' !
 

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