How do I tell if this is genuine?

#2
No particular reason to think it's not. I would suggest that it was a locally made souvenir (it even says so!) that had the RFC badge applied by the purchaser.
It's not a Chinese knock off!
 
#3
Seeing as its trench art I'd imagine it's be a one off hence unique and very hard too prove.

You could probably tell the date from the casing but that could'nt tell you when it was made, diffcult.
 
#4
Nice looking piece.

I don't know anything about the air gunner badge for the UK but the Rhodesian Air gunner badge was similar and as the Rhodesians copied most from the UK it looks good.


The piece itself "looks" heavy and rough enough.

For 30 quid you get what you pay for at the end.

And I cannot see any "made in INDIA " stamps on it.

Take a chance :D
 
#5
Apart from the fact that it isn't an RFC badge?



msr
 
#8
One of these:
 
#9
Former GF's dad was an Air Gunner pre-WW2 [North-West Frontier, Westland Wapiti, 5 Sqn]. His trade badge, and it doesn't make this a WW1 item.

Classic assembly kit from an Indian village workshop, IMO, and worth at least £5, possibly £7.
 
#10
My 2d worth. Assuming this was a shell case, they say @ 40mm hence I would have expected a rim at the base (this is not any ‘expert’ view, just opinion). However, there appears to be an attached base, but then missing usual shell markings, and, the ‘infill’ (why) with plenty of solder has a copper (?) plate with ‘1917’ – but why are the numerals raised??? The style of ‘Souvenir’ I’ve seen several times before, as with Asian repros sold in Euro markets – recalls copper and brass bugle with poor sandcast badge of Argylls. Some traders put them out shiny, some ‘fishponded’ them. 8O

‘Engraving’ is not. Typical hammer and nail indenting, like Mustafa does? Nice tea/rose leaves though? Belled end (not bel’end) looks tapped out on an anvil/last and the whole thing wheel polished. Badge doesn’t convince me – but that’s just an impression. Agree with bluey, about a fiver – expect to see another identical ‘unique’ one next week.

May be of interest http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/37-40mm.htm

No.9
 
#11
Ask the seller for a photo or details of the headstamp on the round then google it and it will give you the date of manufacture etc. It looks rimless to me which suggests it's not British.
 
#12
I'd say it was genuine simply because there is no reserve on it. Even in India I doubt if they'd go to that much trouble for just a few quid. Also, it's a lot easier to carve a swastika on just about anything and watch the money roll in.
 
#13
In fairness, it would not be hard for the seller to have misidentified what later became the air gunner's badge for what was just an artistic flourish.

As I recall (from CG Jefford's 'Observers and Navigators' book) Air Gunners in the 1914-1918 period were (eventually) given the winged 'O' worn by those who'd passed the observers' course. There were plans to issue a special air gunner's badge, and one design did bear a similarity to that on the e-bay item - AIUI, the badge wasn't adopted, though and the Observer wing was issued instead.
 
#14
"Even in India I doubt if they'd go to that much trouble for just a few quid."

What??? Parts of southern India have families, including kiddies, happily chippin' stones into shape for road hardcore. Yes they could use machine processing, but, then these folk would have absolutely nothing to do to earn a few coins. In some parts of the world you can still have a night at the pictures, a bite to eat, a few jars of grog, ten fags and get change from half a sheet. Indian made hackles you get charged £7 or £8 notes for, are sold for around 25-50p, and the women who actually make them probably get 10p a hundred. And, they say there's better money in India than their neighbours. Alternately, go to Tokyo and shell out an arm and a leg for a hamburger - it's all about exchange rate - ask the Polacs. :wink:

No.9
 
#15
Looks about as kosher as a bloke called Mustafa to me.

Why fabricate that bottom if a shell case has a perfectly good flat end?

Generally when it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, has a rat tail and eats cheese it is a rat.
 
#16
No.9 said:
In some parts of the world you can still have a night at the pictures, a bite to eat, a few jars of grog, ten fags and get change from half a sheet. No.9
Having been alongside in India, I can attest to this. It is a veritable paradise, although their titty bars are a bit shite and a goat brain curry is poor substitute for a chicken kebab.

Street vendors out there do sell a whole world of copycat shite though - genuine fake antique prismatic compass/sextant no problem boss! All strangely pristine for their age :wink:

Mind you, a lot of the sellers other items seem fairly gen.
 
#18
I expressed some concern on eBay ...

The Seller replied:
hi, let me give you some history here, i have several sources for my military items, house clearance chap,an old collector and a fellow who goes to munich, germany every 3 months and buys a large amount from a big fair there.
this piece came from a house clearance, the home had several confirmed ww1 items,the previous owner had died and it was subject to probate, the brass is certainly a shell, very old, the badge i have to confess i did not research much however i can vouch for the shell, every item i sell is subject to returns for any reason, i appreciate your help and advice on this, thank you, frank.
Still unpersuaded [not by the seller necessarily, just the item].
 
#19
No.9 said:
"Even in India I doubt if they'd go to that much trouble for just a few quid."

What??? Parts of southern India have families, including kiddies, happily chippin' stones into shape for road hardcore. Yes they could use machine processing, but, then these folk would have absolutely nothing to do to earn a few coins. In some parts of the world you can still have a night at the pictures, a bite to eat, a few jars of grog, ten fags and get change from half a sheet. Indian made hackles you get charged £7 or £8 notes for, are sold for around 25-50p, and the women who actually make them probably get 10p a hundred. And, they say there's better money in India than their neighbours. Alternately, go to Tokyo and shell out an arm and a leg for a hamburger - it's all about exchange rate - ask the Polacs. :wink:

No.9
True, true, true....but to knock up that shell you'd need a foundry and a good knowledge of WW1, something I doubt the average armless Indian has in his hovel. And...like I said, why bother with WW1? Make a teaspoon, put a swastika on it and get £100.

Having said that, if the bottom of the shell has had a bit cast onto it for the 1917 bit, that does look dodgy. Incidentally, that raised lettering could just be camera angle, much in the same way that moon craters look like bulges until you turn the picture upside down.
 
#20
Awol said:
No.9 said:
"Even in India I doubt if they'd go to that much trouble for just a few quid."

What??? Parts of southern India have families, including kiddies, happily chippin' stones into shape for road hardcore. Yes they could use machine processing, but, then these folk would have absolutely nothing to do to earn a few coins. In some parts of the world you can still have a night at the pictures, a bite to eat, a few jars of grog, ten fags and get change from half a sheet. Indian made hackles you get charged £7 or £8 notes for, are sold for around 25-50p, and the women who actually make them probably get 10p a hundred. And, they say there's better money in India than their neighbours. Alternately, go to Tokyo and shell out an arm and a leg for a hamburger - it's all about exchange rate - ask the Polacs. :wink:

No.9
True, true, true....but to knock up that shell you'd need a foundry and a good knowledge of WW1, something I doubt the average armless Indian has in his hovel. And...like I said, why bother with WW1? Make a teaspoon, put a swastika on it and get £100.

Having said that, if the bottom of the shell has had a bit cast onto it for the 1917 bit, that does look dodgy. Incidentally, that raised lettering could just be camera angle, much in the same way that moon craters look like bulges until you turn the picture upside down.
I've seen spill holders that were so heavily reworked you wouldn't immediately recognise them as shells. All the base was removed and reworked.
 

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