How accurate is Contact (1985)?

[par avion]

*Balaclava company, drawn by lots I believe.

Where did the ones not selected go to? Were they evenly distributed across the rest of the Scottish Infantry Division battalions?

 

[tiger stacker]

Where did the ones not selected go to? Were they evenly distributed across the rest of the Scottish Infantry Division battalions?

They were, when reformed at kirknewton a lot of the sncos chose to stay with their new btns resulting in a younger sgt+ wo mess.
One of the better rgts when it came to ulster, they did the business

 

[par avion]

They were, when reformed at kirknewton a lot of the sncos chose to stay with their new btns resulting in a younger sgt+ wo mess.
One of the better rgts when it came to ulster, they did the business

Didn't a couple of them go down for murder on their 1972 tour?

Edit Three killings which left a border community reeling.

 

[tiger stacker]

Didn't a couple of them go down for murder on their 1972 tour?

It’s explained here

My Lords, a soldier is not as other...

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 3:39 pm 20th January 2021

www.theyworkforyou.com

 

[wasteofrations2]

IMHO, a very accurate portrayal of S.Armagh. The boredom, exhaustion, the constant patrolling, it's all there.
In regard to other operations, when I joined battalion (1RRF) in the mid eighties there were still a few Aden veterans around, I remember the platoon Sgt saying that when he joined in the seventies there were Korea veterans still kicking about. By the time of my first tour, S.Armagh 1988, it was the battalion's tenth tour. There was a fellow in Y company that had been on nine of them.

 

[Richard Headicus]

Where did the ones not selected go to?

Pass. I was out before then.

 

[Richard Headicus]

Didn't a couple of them go down for murder on their 1972 tour?

Edit Three killings which left a border community reeling.

Again, after my time, but not one of our finest moments.

 

[Proff3RTR]

Nigs was still much in use in my time (83 onwards).
Didn't realise there was anything very derogatory in that as thought it meant new intake something??

Was still in use in Germany in 88, and unless someone else got to your Sqn/Coy you were one for a year and a day, (Thank fully I was a NIG for 3 months, then another muppet turned up from the factory, no I was officially Alley as F and no longer a NIG).

 

[par avion]

Was still in use in Germany in 88, and unless someone else got to your Sqn/Coy you were one for a year and a day, (Thank fully I was a NIG for 3 months, then another muppet turned up from the factory, no I was officially Alley as F and no longer a NIG).

In JLR RE at Dover when I joined in 1971 you were classed as a 'Rookie' for a year and a day. This was in the days when JL's was two years. When I went to Gib Barracks in 1980 where adult RE recruits did what is now called phase 1 and phase 2 but was then 1&3 Training Regiments RE recruits were referred to as 'mongs' by the instructors.

 

[pete49]

It was crows when I was in

 

[tiger stacker]

In JLR RE at Dover when I joined in 1971 you were classed as a 'Rookie' for a year and a day. This was in the days when JL's was two years. When I went to Gib Barracks in 1980 where adult RE recruits did what is now called phase 1 and phase 2 but was then 1&3 Training Regiments RE recruits were referred to as 'mongs' by the instructors.

What term of address was used for your second year at JL

 

[RoyalGreenJacket]

The main character from what I could grab was a Captain, was it normal for a Captain to be leading the patrols in NI like that? I always thought officers were tactically in the middle.

The Orbat changed for NI, we didn't use 1 x Platoon with 3 x Sections comprising 2 x Fire-teams of 4 men each.

Instead, Platoons were re-orbated (is that even a word) and split in half down the middle - they comprised of 2 x 'Multiples' comprising 3 x 'Bricks' of 4 men each with a Full Screw commanding one Brick and a Lance Jack commanding the other - with the Platoon Commander and Platoon Serjeant assigned as 'Multiple Commanders' for each of the 2 Multiples in a Platoon.

The Multiple Commander would usually be glued to the RUC Policeman for the foot-patrol, along with the dedicated Brick they were working with - this was known as the 'Primary Brick' comprising 3 x Riflemen, 1 x JNCO and 1 x Officer / SNCO to provide close protection for the RUC Policeman. Usually the Full Screw or Lance Jack for the Primary Brick was still the Brick Commander - their job to escort the Multiple Commander and the RUC Policeman. The job of the Multiple Commander was to stick with the RUC Policeman and be his liaison and immediate protection.

The other 2 Bricks would always float around the Primary Brick - these became Satellite Bricks. So let's say the RUC Policeman wanted to walk down 'High Street' to serve a warrant etc - he would have the Brick Commander literally right beside him with the rest of the Primary Brick spread out moving tactically, whilst one of the Satellite Bricks would be patrolling down 'East Street' and the other on 'West Street'.

The second Multiple of the Platoon would usually be providing Mobile Support comprising of 2 x APV / Snatch vehicles with an RCT / RLC dedicated driver, the Full Screw / Lance Jack as Commander and 3 x Riflemen in the back - 2 of those on Top-Cover and one in reserve incase one of those on Top-Cover was incapacitated (it happened quite alot). These 2 vehicles always worked together and drove around the patrol area in pairs to provide mutual support, deter attacks on the foot patrol and provide an immediate QRF during any incident. The 3rd Brick of the second Multiple would usually be 'stood down' and sorting their life out or getting their head down.

There are other variants and anomalies to the above.

And that is why you often found a Captain (Multiple Commander) on foot patrol with the troops in NI - there is a 50/50 chance he would be out on the ground with his men, depending on which Multiple of his Platoon was deployed.

 

[LanceBombardEars]

The Orbat changed for NI, we didn't use 1 x Platoon with 3 x Sections comprising 2 x Fire-teams of 4 men each.

Instead, Platoons were re-orbated (is that even a word) and split in half down the middle - they comprised of 2 x 'Multiples' comprising 3 x 'Bricks' of 4 men each with a Full Screw commanding one Brick and a Lance Jack commanding the other - with the Platoon Commander and Platoon Serjeant assigned as 'Multiple Commanders' for each of the 2 Multiples in a Platoon.

The Multiple Commander would usually be glued to the RUC Policeman for the foot-patrol, along with the dedicated Brick they were working with - this was known as the 'Primary Brick' comprising 3 x Riflemen, 1 x JNCO and 1 x Officer / SNCO to provide close protection for the RUC Policeman. Usually the Full Screw or Lance Jack for the Primary Brick was still the Brick Commander - their job to escort the Multiple Commander and the RUC Policeman. The job of the Multiple Commander was to stick with the RUC Policeman and be his liaison and immediate protection.

The other 2 Bricks would always float around the Primary Brick - these became Satellite Bricks. So let's say the RUC Policeman wanted to walk down 'High Street' to serve a warrant etc - he would have the Brick Commander literally right beside him with the rest of the Primary Brick spread out moving tactically, whilst one of the Satellite Bricks would be patrolling down 'East Street' and the other on 'West Street'.

The second Multiple of the Platoon would usually be providing Mobile Support comprising of 2 x APV / Snatch vehicles with an RCT / RLC dedicated driver, the Full Screw / Lance Jack as Commander and 3 x Riflemen in the back - 2 of those on Top-Cover and one in reserve incase one of those on Top-Cover was incapacitated (it happened quite alot). These 2 vehicles always worked together and drove around the patrol area in pairs to provide mutual support, deter attacks on the foot patrol and provide an immediate QRF during any incident. The 3rd Brick of the second Multiple would usually be 'stood down' and sorting their life out or getting their head down.

There are other variants and anomalies to the above.

And that is why you often found a Captain (Multiple Commander) on foot patrol with the troops in NI - there is a 50/50 chance he would be out on the ground with his men, depending on which Multiple of his Platoon was deployed.

We had pretty much the same set up, however for some reason our Battery head shed always chucked everyone into the pot as sooned as we were warned for ops and then manned the multiples from the pot. Consequently it was only by luck if you ended up in a team with someone from your day to day troop.
I never understood the logic, but they did it every time.

 

[wasteofrations2]

We had pretty much the same set up, however for some reason our Battery head shed always chucked everyone into the pot as sooned as we were warned for ops and then manned the multiples from the pot. Consequently it was only by luck if you ended up in a team with someone from your day to day troop.
I never understood the logic, but they did it every time.

That's interesting. We tended to stay as a brick for the whole tour. A bit of chop and change to cover R+R etc, but as a rule we worked with the same blokes.

 

[LanceBombardEars]

That's interesting. We tended to stay as a brick for the whole tour. A bit of chop and change to cover R+R etc, but as a rule we worked with the same blokes.

We did once the orbat for the tour was established. It was just that the orbat wasn't set from existing Troops. So it was possible to go on tour in a brick with someone from G Troop, one from I Troop, one from H Troop and someone from BHQ Troop.
Then after the tour you'd go back to your own troop.

 

[beefer]

That's interesting. We tended to stay as a brick for the whole tour. A bit of chop and change to cover R+R etc, but as a rule we worked with the same blokes.

Yeh, I had three blokes with me for the whole S Armagh tour, two of them were killed in the Falklands.

 

[wasteofrations2]

We did once the orbat for the tour was established. It was just that the orbat wasn't set from existing Troops. So it was possible to go on tour in a brick with someone from G Troop, one from I Troop, one from H Troop and someone from BHQ Troop.
Then after the tour you'd go back to your own troop.

I misread your post, I thought you meant mix n match on the tour, not training. However, our bricks were established for NITAT from the same platoons. A bit of cross posting, but not much.

 

[Red001]

Probably because there is no one threatening to shoot them

ETA Based on the logic that dimmed lights = less fuel consumption, I guess the way to save the planet is issue more guns

Something that seems to have been forgotten these days as vehicles approach barriers.

Dimming lights at checkpoints is still SOP for the ICRC. As is switching on internal lights to show we're not a threat.

 

[beefer]

I’ve just remembered that shortly after the book was published Tony Clarke was taken to task by a senior officer - Frank King IIRC - about inaccuracies and exaggerations in the book and they both appeared on BBC Newsnight.

One argument was about “buckshee” ammunition where the VSO was adamant that this could never happen as all ammunition was controlled. I had a wry smile to myself as we took over from the Royal Scots in XMG and as my counterpart was leaving he said “By the way, I’ve left 200 link under your bed”


I in turn handed them over to the next lot - Royal Marines.

 

[syrup]

Don't forget that the Argyles were reduced to a company between 1968 and 1972. So he could have served in another regiment during this time. They were specifically reformed together with a number of other battalions reduced to a company in 1972 due to a shortage of infantry due to Ulster. Other battalions were 1 R Hamps, 1 Glosters and 2 Scots Guards.

I after think it was unfair to soldiers of that generation who could have seen intense active service in the Radfan as with the actions with 3 Para and 45 Cdo in 1964, 1RNF and 1 Argyes in Crater during the Arab police mutiny, B Company 2 Paras action against a Indonesian SF Bn - 400 against 39 in the Battle of Plamen Mapu, Borneo 1965 and numerous tours of Ulster including 1972 when over 100 soldiers were KIA. Yet they only got one medal - the 1962 GSM.

In my opinion a seperate campaign medal should have been issued for each of those conflicts. By the level of intensity they were in effect, wars. Artillery was used in both Borneo and the Radfan with FGA also used extensively in the Radfan. I could never understand why a medal was issued for the 1979/80 Commonwealth Monitoring Force in Rhodesia where a Conservative government sold out our kith and kin who had fought by our side in the Boer war, two world wars and Malaya.

These days medals seem to be handed out willy nilly besides the genuine war fighting campaigns like GW1, Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraqi. I got two myself when in the Met for the two Queens Jubilee events in the noughties although I never bothered collecting them from HR.

Worth remembering Cyprus in the mid 50's

"1956 and 1957 were the peak years of the EOKA campaign. The total British servicemen killed throughout the entire campaign was 371"

John A Lunn : Casualties of the EOKA Campaign

1956 and 1957 were the peak years of the EOKA campaign. The total British servicemen killed throughout the entire campaign was 371. Many were caused by ambushes

mynationalservice.co.uk