HOW’S YOUR GERMAN?

'as dis bugsy chap been publishin' books? dat must make 'imself consider ‘imself sum type av author. chucker yer nu by any chance wha oi git me 'ands on a copy?

MsG
Did your dad speak to you in some sort of shite English when he wanted to "speak" to you alone.
 
Ooh look, more lies:
"Breathtakingly beautiful version. We never did it even half as well when I sang in the choir in Dungarvan, Co Waterford. Many thanks for the upload. It brought back many fond memories of my homeland.MsG !
 
[My bold in your post] This is an interesting one. You’ve stated a number of times that I, allegedly, can’t speak German as it’s spoken by (as you put it) “actual Germans”. I’d like to know how you come to that conclusion. You’ve never heard me speak German, so how can you judge?

Being “fluent” in a language, as the term is widely understood in linguistic circles, means being able to reproduce the target language in such a way that grammar, syntax, basic sentence structure and breadth of meaning are, more or less, indistinguishable from the way an intelligent native speaker would express her or himself, sowohl mündlich als auch schriftlich!

As far as I can make out, you’re basing your judgment on the way I write German, since you've never heard me speak the language. In spite of the ridiculous accusation that I use Google translate, and we both agree (funnily enough) that the app is far inferior to human translators, everything I’ve written is my own work. But somehow you’ve deduced that I have a “feeble grasp of German as it is spoken by actual Germans”. It’s, therefore, puzzling that, although I talk to Germans (and Swiss-Germans) practically on a daily basis, not one of them has ever remarked that they find my German unintelligible or in any way “unusual”. Now, these are folks who, for the most part, also work with languages as a part of their professions, so they, I’d imagine, would be the first to point out any “anomalies” in my German. But they never have. In fact, I’m one of that rare breed who can deliver high quality in both D/E and E/D translations, as I’ve proved on countless occasions. I’d appreciate it if you could define just what you mean by your statement. How does “German as spoken by actual Germans” differ from the German I’ve displayed on this (and other) freds?

However, using your own method of deduction, and taking into account that you’re not a translator, I’ve seen the rare bits of German you’ve written and come to the conclusion that, although you’re probably capable of holding a conversation in German (not surprising after almost three decades in the country), you’re not “fluent” in the sense I described above. But that’s extrapolating from your written German, as you did with mine. So I’m more than willing to admit I may be wrong in judging your spoken German on your rather fundamental grasp of the written language.

Back to my question: why, in your opinion, would “actual Germans” have difficulty understanding me?

MsG
Well, as that was a sensible post, I'll give you a sensible answer. Well done on avoiding the invective for a change.

Firstly I agree that Google translate is often laughable in the way it translates between English, German, Italian and French; no matter which combination of those you choose. You are also right that I have never heard you speak German so can't judge your diction, pronunciation or accent. On the other hand i would say that your written German, both here and in your PMs, is unnecessarily florid and takes forms that the myriad of native speakers I know would never choose, unless they were deliberately setting out to show off. they would understand you, but would wonder why anyone would speak that way.

However, the point of my post was to get you to react, to demonstrate just how ridiculous your theory about Pavlovian response is in this forum. If you are right, then you are a dog. If you are not right then you are...well...wrong.
 

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@DaManBugs, phuck off and take your sock with you.
You lying Irish kunt
 
'as dis bugsy chap been publishin' books? dat must make 'imself consider ‘imself sum type av author. chucker yer nu by any chance wha oi git me 'ands on a copy?

MsG
Classic Bugsy. You asked us to prove that you're lying. We prove it (yes the Royal we) and you regress into some sort of drug induced gobbledygook.
I'm beginning to think you might be lying about your age as well. Are you 6 years old?
 
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DaManBugs

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I've reduced your post to the bit that interests me. Which is this:
On the other hand i would say that your written German, both here and in your PMs, is unnecessarily florid and takes forms that the myriad of native speakers I know would never choose, unless they were deliberately setting out to show off. they would understand you, but would wonder why anyone would speak that way.
What exactly do you mean by "unnecessarily florid"? Just what do you, personally, find is "unnecessary" about it? If you mean: "gewählte Ausdruckweise" or "gehobene Ausdrucksweise", then sure, guilty as charged. However, I've never, ever met one single German, either in East or West Germany, who didn't aspire to do exactly that with the German language, depending on the company, of course. But in whatever German company I happened to find myself over the years, not one single person has ever complained, or even mentioned in passing, that they found my German in any way "gestelzt". How do you explain that?

But the origin of this thread had its beginning in your sudden and fierce attack on me on another fred, suddenly proclaiming that a sentence in my sig was "totally wrong" and very bad German. The sentence in question was: "Fünf Minuten for der Zeit ist des Soldaten Pünktlichkeit; der Sanitäter kommt zehn MInuten später", although you did, rather reluctantly, later admit that it "could" be possible.

I was initially bemused by your uncalled for and totally unexpected attack, for I actually adopted that very sentence from a German Army website, from the sig of a former German Medic. I found it appropriate and decided to use it. So what you were, in fact, doing was accusing a native German of using his language wrongly. That's a very daring thing to do. At the same time, I also seriously wondered how you'd go about explaining something like: "Wes' Brot ich ess', des' Lied ich sing'" - which is normally written without the apostrophes. Would that also be "wrong" for you, even though it's "classic German"?

So, again, my question: what's, in your opinion, is "unnecessarily florid" about my German? Is it the fact that you, yourself, can't easily reproduce it? Don't forget that I work with languages for a living and, as such, I spend a lot of time writing them. That, quite possibly, doesn't apply to you, I imagine.

MsG
 

DaManBugs

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Classic Bugsy. You asked us to prove that you're lying. We prove it (yes the Royal we) and you regress into some sort of drug induced gobbledygook.
I'm beginning to think you might be lying about your age as well. Are you 6 years old?
Oh, for fück's sake! Classic Bugsy? Hey, no wonder you're so gullible and readily believe anything, Murf's_Whore! Your man "Demanbugs" is not me, you thick cünt!

MsG
 

DaManBugs

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Absolutely. This is the exact same route I took with my Magnum Opus How to Write a Bestseller, the acclaimed follow up How to Publish Your Own Book, and more recently with my as-yet unfinished How to get Shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize. These manuscripts all remain unread by anyone other than my editor, as I am content that I have achieved my aim of writing three of the best books ever, and I don't want people stealing my ideas.
Of course you did, No_Privates! You also decided to express your intense and infantile dislike of Bugsy by SABing over 40 of my posts on this thread alone, you stupid, childish cünt! Hopefully, all that adolescent hate will pass once you reach puberty.

MsG
 
Of course you did, No_Privates! You also decided to express your intense and infantile dislike of Bugsy by SABing over 40 of my posts on this thread alone, you stupid, childish cünt!
Still not bothered then?
 
Of course you did, No_Privates! You also decided to express your intense and infantile dislike of Bugsy by SABing over 40 of my posts on this thread alone, you stupid, childish cünt! Hopefully, all that adolescent hate will pass once you reach puberty.

MsG
Not that you are bothered by that sort of thing eh Bugsy?

Did your dad donkey punch you?
 
Bugsy,
I understand what you're going through.
My Grandfather was also a socialist, in a way.

I joined this site in 2016, yet I've had some barely veiled sniggers off some idiot arrsers who have had some pathetic running joke about him wearing designer clothes. Well, he liked to dress smartly; is that so wrong?

Comrade Bugsy, it takes strong men like you, me and him to return Northern Europe to true socialism. You talk of "inferior" people like @Dark_Nit @stacker1 and all, yet I am certain that I am definitely "superior", as my Grandfather was.

I hope together, Bugsy, we can return Northern Europe to the true socialist regime that happened after 1945, and not at all before that.

Heil.......

Sorry,

MsG
 
I've reduced your post to the bit that interests me. Which is this:

What exactly do you mean by "unnecessarily florid"? Just what do you, personally, find is "unnecessary" about it? If you mean: "gewählte Ausdruckweise" or "gehobene Ausdrucksweise", then sure, guilty as charged. However, I've never, ever met one single German, either in East or West Germany, who didn't aspire to do exactly that with the German language, depending on the company, of course. But in whatever German company I happened to find myself over the years, not one single person has ever complained, or even mentioned in passing, that they found my German in any way "gestelzt". How do you explain that?

But the origin of this thread had its beginning in your sudden and fierce attack on me on another fred, suddenly proclaiming that a sentence in my sig was "totally wrong" and very bad German. The sentence in question was: "Fünf Minuten for der Zeit ist des Soldaten Pünktlichkeit; der Sanitäter kommt zehn MInuten später", although you did, rather reluctantly, later admit that it "could" be possible.

I was initially bemused by your uncalled for and totally unexpected attack, for I actually adopted that very sentence from a German Army website, from the sig of a former German Medic. I found it appropriate and decided to use it. So what you were, in fact, doing was accusing a native German of using his language wrongly. That's a very daring thing to do. At the same time, I also seriously wondered how you'd go about explaining something like: "Wes' Brot ich ess', des' Lied ich sing'" - which is normally written without the apostrophes. Would that also be "wrong" for you, even though it's "classic German"?

So, again, my question: what's, in your opinion, is "unnecessarily florid" about my German? Is it the fact that you, yourself, can't easily reproduce it? Don't forget that I work with languages for a living and, as such, I spend a lot of time writing them. That, quite possibly, doesn't apply to you, I imagine.

MsG
You just can't help yourself can you? Do you ever have a conversation without alternating between being on the back foot and being aggressive?

I'll ignore the snide elements in your post, because that's just who you are.

I remember reading a phrase once that reminded me of many people I had met. "He never uses ten words if a thousand will do the job just as well."

My circle of German friends, relatives and associates covers the spectrum. There is a member of the Bundestag, lawyers, businessmen, master tradesmen, truck drivers and others. None of them expand their sentences and statements the way you do, unless they are giving a presentation, making a public statement or trying to block debate.

Simply put: You are overdoing it, gilding the Lily, if you like.

I don't need to defend my language skills. Most Germans think I am a native, just not from 'this area'.
 
Luk lads, oi apologise for al' me lies - oi jist wanted ter make meself fale important for once, ter muk for me 'eartfelt love for a failed ideology. i do rightly speak german; oi tuk de BBC bitesize course a few years ago an' got a bit too big for me daisy roots, dats all.

Oi’ll be gud from now ahn, oi promise - oi won’t even slep de Old trouble & strife around.

MsG
 

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