Horses, mules, donkeys, other equines and large quadrupeds . . . not suitable for the dog, or the cat, threads.

Horses, mules, donkeys, other equines and large quadrupeds (not suitable for the dog, or the cat, threads) . . . such as even elephants and camelids.

There are a number of ARRSE members with interests in equines, and I have intended to start this thread for some time.

The incentive to do this today, is the post below, copied from the inter-web, specifically concerning introducing a foster foal to a new mum.

Who knows, discussing this with your veterinary, the principles may be applicable to those with responsibilities for other species (cattle?), in similar circumstances.
 
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Published by: Jessica Britton, on Facebook, on 24 April 2017 (Four years ago).

BREEDERS PLEASE READ!

As many of you probably saw I posted offering a surrogate mare a few days ago, she belongs to our friend and fellow stud owner Tara Coppins (Taraco Stud) and she lost her foal on Friday morning from an extremely difficult foaling during which the placenta became detached. Sadly this morning I got another message from Tara to say she had lost a different mare 'Magic' to a colon torsion who had foaled four weeks ago.

We met Tara when we had tried (sadly unsuccessfully as is so often the case) to foster George onto her mare Magic. And said we would be over as soon as she needed us to help try foster the foal onto the mare.

In the mean time Jamie, reminded me that Shirley light from Brendon stud had had a lot of success with fostering, and I had been really helpful and kind when I had spoken to her when we lost George's mum, so following his suggestion I gave her a call to ask if she had any advice as both ourselves and Tara had tried fostering before but without success.

We will all be eternally grateful for what Shirley said, today we have learnt some extremely valuable information that I believe EVERY breeder should know, and so I will be sharing far and wide and please do re-share.

Armed with Shirley's information (so much has changed and advanced in six years) I rang Tara and said you're going to have to trust me it sounds mental but (to get her vet to speak to Shirley's vet re dose) but to give a triple dose of Estrumate (PG jab) and introduce the foal.

Giving such a large dose of Estrumate will make the uterus contract making the mare think she had just given birth! Surely it can not be that simple!! Fostering is a long and complicated process which is so often unsuccessful. But I trusted my source and Tara trusted me so we did it! Cue a message to Shirley, How far did you let the contractions get before you introduced foal? We have a lot of sweating but only one big contraction? And response was pretty much straight away!

So at approx 2.20 the mare was given the advised dose of Estrumate. At approx 3pm Tara held the mare I held the foal and pointed her toward the udder and Jamie stood next to me incase she needs to be grabbed out quick. The foal latched on immediately and the mare started to nicker!!
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we just couldn't believe what we were seeing!!

Over the course of the next few minutes the mare completely accepted the foal as though it were her own, whickering, licking, nuzzling, literally as though it were her newly born baby, none of us could believe what we were witnessing. You can see in the videos how wet the foal is, this is where the mare just wants to lick and nuzzle her.

It was quite simply one of the most extraordinary things I have ever seen, had somebody told me at 11am when I got Tara's message that by 4pm there would be a new mare and foal combo completely at ease with each other as though natural born foal and mother, I NEVER would have believed them.

Domperidone has also been given to increase milk production as this had started to wain where it had been several days since the loss of her own foal. Please note the mare started to tremble/shake terribly about half an hour after the drug was administered but stopped within twenty minutes.

Please do share this information, this has given a bereft mare a foal to mother, a foal a mother and the chance at a completely normal upbringing both mentally and from a gastro p.o.v., but also a breeder a normal life (possible in horse breeding... maybe not
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) but a breeder who does not need to feed a foal every 2hrs for the next 4-5 months and on a financial level saved approx £2-3k in foal milk.

It is the most amazing thing I have ever seen, we have all agreed that we could not have pictured such a simple solution to have such a life changing outcome! With a suitable mare this is a groundbreaking tool for breeders to take possibly the worst day of your life to one with hope and positivity in it!

PLEASE SHARE this information is vital to giving orphaned mares a normal upbringing.

Tara I hope this is the turning point in your incredibly undeserving terrible luck this year, you run an amazing stud with care and diligence that is second to none, I hope this is the start of better luck and positivity.
Please contact any of the below to discuss this or for anymore information if you wish and please tell your vets, Tara's learnt something new today and your could too which could lead more successful fosterings.

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The opening post may be of interest to yourselves, or your vets . . .

@CivvyLurker , @pooky . . . ;) .
 
We often supply goats milk for orphaned foals and used to give excess to the horses as a treat in the "old days" when we had nags. we used to take and freeze colostrum as well.
Its not uncommon for mares to foster with good results. I miss our Highlands .
 
If this really does work it will be great for breeders, no more searching for foster mares or skinning dead foals.
As regards cattle, I can only comment in terms of our own herd. Two years ago I lost a cow with a three month old calf at foot, which was then fed by any and all of the other cows. Whether this happens with horses in a herd situation I have no idea.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
If this really does work it will be great for breeders, no more searching for foster mares or skinning dead foals.
As regards cattle, I can only comment in terms of our own herd. Two years ago I lost a cow with a three month old calf at foot, which was then fed by any and all of the other cows. Whether this happens with horses in a herd situation I have no idea.
According to Mrs Helm no it doesn't
 
Use plenty of Estrumate/Prellim, 2ml is standard dose, but that's a new un to me.

Other trick thats been know to work here back in the day, when we bred heavy horses...

Introduce the foster foal, swiftly followed by the nastiest dog you could find.
A strong eager juvenile sheepdog , or a stroppy sneaky gnarled old timer that would give the mare the evil eye, chained with access just inside the stable doorway often induced the mothering instinct. In big docile Shires it was sometimes enough to 'trip the switch' apparently.

Not always successful obviously, but then synthetic prostaglandin wasn't exactly a thing either.

Got a vet visit due, its a good un to run past the 'bright young things'
I'll report back.

Not wanting to be overly cynical, ( Moi?)
The other thing to consider is, like all bloody females, some will mother anything and everything, and others will try and kill even their own feckin offspring, a 'good mother' one year can turn into a fire breathing four legged* psychotic lunatic the next.

( edit; *two legged ones also!)
 

kimmi851

War Hero
On a sad horse related note, some may remember Fred from Larkhill, he was given to the Heavy Horse Centre for a thoroughly pampered retirement (on the grounds of being a bit of a cheeky chappy as well as his size allegedly) sadly he passed away this year after several years being adored by the general public.

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Waldeck

Old-Salt
My Grandfather "Charlie" Henwood in WW1, not sure of his Regiment, but think it would be a Hertfordshire one, possibly the Hertfordshire Yeomanry.

Charlie Henwood.jpg
 
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Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Despite popular opinion, I love horses.

The missus grew up with them and her mum was well known in racing circles. She bred a group 1 Ascot winner and also had a share in a horse that won the derby.

When I first met the wife she had a Paso Fino which is a weird breed of gaited pony from South America. Stuck Paso Fino in YouTube for a laugh. They’re very weird and and don’t trot.

I learned to play polo when I was in the HAC and picked up the bug there. I’ve gotta say polo is about the most exciting and awesome sport that exists. If I didn’t have kids and other responsibilities, I’d probably play all the time.

We have a few ponies for the sprogs but nothing serious, mostly Welsh section Bs and cross breeds.

I’m holding off on the whole pony club thing because I’m painfully aware that it has a tendency to take over your life, with every weekend spent in the pissing rain watching your kid ride round in circles.

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Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Vid of aforementioned Paso Fino.

It looks weird and a bit comical but these horses are fantastic to ride and just glide along. At shows people demonstrate this by holding a glass of champagne while gaiting at full tilt without spilling a drop. They are very comfortable to ride over long distances and were used for smuggling cocaine over the Andes. They would be an ideal horse for someone with back problems who can’t do rising trot.

They are highly prized in Columbia and other areas of Latin America. If you watched Narcos the show horses that the drug cartels keep are Paso Finos.

They are a very niche thing in the U.K. and don’t really fit into any known category. You can’t show jump them, can’t do dressage, can’t do cross country. They are quite literally one trick ponies and are bred purely for showing and demonstrating their gait.

Back when the missus was into them, there were only about 50 in the country. She took her’s to the European Paso championships in Germany and it won 1st prize.

 
Vid of aforementioned Paso Fino.

It looks weird and a bit comical but these horses are fantastic to ride and just glide along. At shows people demonstrate this by holding a glass of champagne while gaiting at full tilt without spilling a drop. They are very comfortable to ride over long distances and were used for smuggling cocaine over the Andes. They would be an ideal horse for someone with back problems who can’t do rising trot.

They are highly prized in Columbia and other areas of Latin America. If you watched Narcos the show horses that the drug cartels keep are Paso Finos.

They are a very niche thing in the U.K. and don’t really fit into any known category. You can’t show jump them, can’t do dressage, can’t do cross country. They are quite literally one trick ponies and are bred purely for showing and demonstrating their gait.

Back when the missus was into them, there were only about 50 in the country. She took her’s to the European Paso championships in Germany and it won 1st prize.


Do they have 2 gaited paces? The first part of the video looks like a 3 time canter pace while the second part is a 2 time trot
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Do they have 2 gaited paces? The first part of the video looks like a 3 time canter pace while the second part is a 2 time trot

They have 3.

From wiki:

The Paso Fino executes a natural evenly spaced four-beat lateral ambling gait, similar to many gaited horses. Both the Colombian and the Puerto Rican strains of the Paso Fino execute the lateral gait naturally, without the aid of training devices.

The Paso Fino's gaits are performed at varied levels of extension in stride. All four hoovestravel close to the ground while in motion and are lifted equally in height as the horse covers ground. At whatever speed the horse travels, the smoothness of the gait ideally allows the rider to appear motionless with little up and down movement.[18]


Paso Fino performing Classic Fino
  • The classic fino or paso fino is a collectedgait with rapid footfalls that covers as little ground as possible. It requires a high degree of collection. This is a show gait reserved for competition. Walking, trotting, cantering or any detected break from the rapid evenly spaced sequence of steps is grounds for disqualification at any time during a fino event.
  • The paso corto is slightly more extended, and used during trail rides. The speed of this gait is comparable to the speed of a trot but is much smoother.
  • The paso largo is a fast, lateral, four-beat gait in which the horse can reach speeds equivalent to a canter or slow gallop. The paso largo is not just an increase in speed but also shows a distinct extension in stride. The paso largo can be extremely fast, up to 25-30 mph.[quote/]
 
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