Hoon to SAS: You must be more gender inclusive.


War Hero
Page 19 in the Mail on Sunday today (dec 5). Just under a page apparently reporting a comment made by TCH to gathered members of said unit. Unsurprisingly, met with silence and the classic comment: "If that is all you have to say, I think we are done here" followed by sharp exit left by TCH and aides and a screeching of tyres heading back towards London. Much denial by MoD etc etc. 'A senior SAS Source': "Mr Hoon is simply trying to make us politically correct and we're not - we kill people."

If anyone can drag it off the internet, well worth putting here. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a Biff when it comes to that sort of think.

They should have cut of his family jewels, if TCH had any which I doubt.

Thats one gene pool, we can do without :evil:
Full story attached... nearly choked on me bacon buttie this morning when I read it. SO funny to see TCH getting feck-d off at the high port. Just proves the high level of knowledge that our 'masters' have of the forces... obviously as a result of their extensive service to the crown!!

DEFENCE Secretary Geoff Hoon received a humiliating reception from an audience of senior SAS officers when he suggested they should accept women into their ranks, it was claimed last night.
In a telling move that went against well-established convention, not a single man applauded Mr Hoon’s speech. Instead, according to reliable unofficial sources, the officers and NCOs sat in silence.
And one senior SAS soure said: ‘Mr Hoon is simply trying to make us politically correct and we’re not — we kill people.’
SAS officers have strongly resisted the inclusion of women because, they say, females cannot cope with the tough physical demands. But they fear pressure from PC politicians will force them to change the rules.
The Ministry of Defence vigorously denies that Mr Hoon raised the subject during his visit to the SAS’s headquarters near Hereford seven weeks ago.
But The Mail on Sunday has been told that, during a speech, he first congratulated the men on their performance in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then the mood changed when he declared: ‘Gentlemen, you need to think about becoming more gender inclusive,’ suggesting the SAS should consider allowing women to volunteer for its grueling selection course.
According to several impeccable sources who were at the meeting, the Defence Secretary was left embarrassed and humiliated by the silent reaction to his suggestion.
The convention is that guests are applauded, however badly their speech has been received. In clipped tones, a senior officer sitting near Mr Hoon is said to have stood up, thanked the Minister for his comments and added:
‘If that is all you have to say, I think we are done here.’
The sources say that Mr Hoon and his aides quickly left the platform and he was whisked back to London.
The officers expected him to talk about providing new equipment for the regiment, whose motto is ‘Who Dares Wins’.
The senior SAS source said: ‘We are not trying to be butch about this. Some of the work in Ulster by the Army’s female intelligence officers puts us to shame. But deploying women behind enemy lines for two or three weeks is different. They cannot physically do our work.
‘We carry heavy weights over long distances and we work very closely. That would cause a problem if you had a female in your team. No matter how good she was, her presence would be divisive. Hoon’s ignorance about the subject angered everyone. He knows the problems of putting women into frontline combat.
‘We didn’t take any prisoners after he made his ridiculous suggestion. Our reception sent clear message to him about what we think of allowing women into the regiment.’
The SAS is about to recruit its first female assistant adjutant into an administrative role, but she will not wear SAS insignia or go on operations.
Female soldiers serve with special operations units such as 14 Intelligence Company, but they are not allowed to volunteer for the SAS and are barred from the selection course.
An MoD spokeswoman said ‘We have checked very carefully and the incident you describe allegedly concerning the Secretary of State did not take place nor did anything resembling it. It is a complete fabrication.’
Later, the MoD spokeswoman added: ‘I understand that you have contacted the duty Press officer questioning the reply gave you. I am not going to g into details of where and when the Secretary of State meets Special Forces personnel, nor the content of their discussions.
‘However, I can categorically inform you that he did not have the conversation you describe nor anything resembling it.’
Last night, The Mail on Sunday’s sources insisted their version of events was ‘spot-on’

Note however that according to quoted press officer 'it never happened' !!
The Mail is only just behind the redtops when it comes to printing complete sh*te. It wouldn't surprise me if this was misquoted or even complete testicles. Hoon has done some stupid things in the past but he's not a complete fcukwit and even the most lefties would agree that women can't serve in SF roles. However, if it is true I concur with the above. Make me Minister for Defence. Staff helos for all.

Second point: the MOS knows damn well that no-one from the regiment concerned is going to issue a statement about this so they can print what the hell they like.
I don't wish to be drawn into this well worn debate, but one aspect of the story is inaccurate - they have had women serving in RHQ before now and the one that served when I was in green was held in extremely high regard by the CO - I know, because he told me.

The debate about women serving goes along much the same lines as the rest of the Army, but there have been moments when they did consider the possibility...

And I have heard rumours in the past that girlies have passed the course in the TA.

Mr Happy

This is the same argument again and again.

The simple fact is most women can't carry huge weights across the praries for long periods. But that shouldn't exclude them from trying, and if one can, then I would work beside her as readily as the next man whatever his preference or colour.

The only thing I feel sorry for is anyone having lunch with TCH.
Prodigal said:
And I have heard rumours in the past that girlies have passed the course in the TA.
From my sources, not the same course. It was 'dampened down.' ie less weight and distance. It was for a particular CO had at the time. They definitely did not do test week at 3kph
Mr Happy said:
But that shouldn't exclude them from trying, and if one can, then I would work beside her as readily as the next man whatever his preference or colour.

The only thing I feel sorry for is anyone having lunch with TCH.
would you want to work with her when she "has the painters round"? not much use to anyone then. Women do take roughly double the sick days than men.

It not broke no need to fix it, for the Islington social workers this one. I do agree strongly with previous posts
As an aside do the RAF still train women as fast jet pilots?

I heard that the retension rate was so low as to make it a waste of time (they all met infanteers, got married and had kids)

I don't think that this is a prejudice that in 20 years we will look back and say "of course women weren't allowed in the Infantry in my day - they were unenlightened times"

I think that the dynamics of small male group cohesion are particular to - well - men. This is the magic that can't be messed with, it does work.

There's more to selection than the phys.
Even Hoon is not that much of a buffon unless he was trying to make a joke ? And I'm sure the SAS seniors are politicaly aware enough
not to fcuk off the bloke who signs the cheques ,but,it is a great story :lol:
LostBoss said:
As an aside do the RAF still train women as fast jet pilots?
Yes, they do - some are even instructors. The only selection criterion for fast jet aircrew is their flying ability; everything else comes a poor second, including officer qualities, as those of us obliged to live in the same Mess are well aware.
Cyberhacker said:
Whilst this would be amusing if true, I suspect an urban myth has just been born.

Even TCH isn't *that* stupid, is he?
8O er.....Sorry? 8O

Which forum did you think you were on Cyberhacker?


Book Reviewer
He's certainly not stupid - he is a Barrister, and in my experience they are the sharpest tools (intelectually) that you can find.

He is, however, a politician, and therefore subject to a different worldview than the rest of the country - especially different from ours :evil:
Seeing as there are very few women who could or would do selection, why not do it on a case by case basis. Then if they have enough who do pass, form a separate female op-group.
Putting 1 woman with 3 men is a bad idea for so many reasons. But what about the benefits of an all woman section? They would never be suspected for a start.

plus women that spend lots of time together, eventually syncronise so that the painters are in at the same time. Give them 4 days off each month.

Any thoughts?
I take it this " Hoon " fellow must have fallen asleep watching a rerun of GIJane on the telly wherein Demi Moore saves the world...

This sounds like a lovely urban fable.. after all.. in any country that refuses to allow women to fully participate in combat situations in ' regular ' military units, allowing females in specialized units is ' low' on the radar..

likely to see female priests in the Catholic Church before the government would allow any females to be blowed up real good in front line ' endeavours '...

Still...It would take a brave man with a strong stomach for torture to face down a, camoed up, big knife wielding, woman in the throes of PMS...He damn well better have the right answer when she asks if she looks fat in those combats...
The problems with having a mixed team are numerous. The men will never treat the woman as a solider. They will either look down upon her, or dote upon her. Both of which are unacceptable. A group of men can work as one, but introduce a woman, and it immediately goes tits-up (excuse pun).
As for 'having the painters in', I have no problem with saying period, but using a euphamisim doesn't make me sexist.
Didn't the Israelis stop having mixed combat units because of the effect on cohesion?

I thought I'd read that they had found that the dynamic changed completely especially when one of the women got wounded?

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