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"Honour" killings & integration in the UK?

#1
Here
South Wales Evening Post said:
Life terms for 'honour killing' duo

</p>

15:51 - 14 July 2006

</p>
Two men were given life sentences for the "barbaric" honour killing of a young woman who fell in love with the wrong man.

</p>

Samaira Nazir, a 25-year-old graduate and recruitment consultant, was knifed to death in a savage attack after her family were angered by demands to marry Salman Mohammed.

</p>

The Old Bailey heard the Pakistani family disapproved of the Afghan asylum seeker, accusing him of being after their money.

</p>

Sally Howes QC, prosecuting, told the court: "Following a heated argument about her relationship with Salman, she was attacked and killed. She lost her life for loving the wrong man."

</p>

Samaira was stabbed 18 times at the family home in Abbotts Road, Southall, west London, in April last year by her brother Azhar, 30, and cousin Imran Mohammed, 17.

</p>

Greengrocer Nazir was jailed for life with a minimum term of 20 years.

</p>

Mohammed was detained During Her Majesty's Pleasure with a minimum term of 10 years.

</p>

Judge Christopher Moss told them: "This was a barbaric crime. She suffered a brutal, gruesome and horrific death."
</p>
Hmmmm ... 20 years for one and 10 years for the other for committing a "barbaric crime". Under present regulations will this be halved, with extra time off for good behaviour :x

</p> I note, the family did not object to the murder so maybe this behaviour is acceptable in Pakistan, perhaps they would be happier to return to a country where they can practice their customs to their hearts content ...
 
#2
rockape34 said:
I note, the family did not object to the murder so maybe this behaviour is acceptable in Pakistan, perhaps they would be happier to return to a country where they can practice their customs to their hearts content ...
Wouldn't have thought so. They don't have social security in Pakistan do they?
 
#3
there will never be intigration with asians in this country until they accept our customs , dress and move out of their ghettos, they could learn a lot from the west indians and chinese.
 
#5
My friend's family is from Pakistan. Her parents moved to the US when their first daughter was born, because they wanted her to have a better life. As I see it, they can dress how they want, and hang on to some cultural stuff (foods, prayer beads, nice little things) but honour killings are a custom that ought to be left at home. The one we should really look at here is the victim, who WAS integrated.

The problem as I see it (in both the US and UK), is that we don't treat nutters like that as a small extremist splinter group of the muslim community. They want us to think all muslims are like them, because when we pay attention to them, it alienates the sane majority. When they become alienated, they are more vulnerable to recruitment by radicals. Then an ugly cycle begins
 
#6
We are constantly being told that the majority of Muslims are nice peace loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly , perhaps what we are seeing here is the true Muslim and what they stand for.
Does seem very strange that many other cultures have integrated with no problem over the years . The differance is that these other cultures have accepted British laws and customs and not demanded the British change.
 
#7
I am not a racist. I could not give a flying fcuk about an individual's race or skin colour. I have no problem whatsoever with a multi-racial society in the UK.

What I do object to is a multi-cultural society. It doesn't work, it will not work, and the sooner that those who will not integrate into this country are made to leave, the better.

Rant over.
 
#8
I think that one of the most disturbing things about this was the emergence of what appears to be a 'community' representative within the CPS:

Nazir Afzal, area director of the Crown Prosecution Service, said: "Samaira was murdered because she loved the wrong person, in her family's eyes. "In that sense, it was an honour killing to protect the perceived status of the family, to mark their disapproval."

...he said, attempting, if not to actually justify this evil act in the name of a foreign culture, then explain it as a logical outcome to the ignorant indigenous masses.
 
#9
I'm slightly concerned that the Father seems to have managed to do a runner.

However, I am much more shocked and deeply disgusted that two young girls (nieces I believe) were made to watch the killing.
 
#10
Death_Rowums said:
I'm slightly concerned that the Father seems to have managed to do a runner.

However, I am much more shocked and deeply disgusted that two young girls (nieces I believe) were made to watch the killing.
The mother wanted to watch the killing, according to ITV news.

What sort of twisted faith can make a woman act against what is quite literally the strongest instinct on the face of the planet? It really does beggar belief, and is worth a lot more than 5 years inside, which is what they'll serve at most.
 
#11
Awol said:
Death_Rowums said:
I'm slightly concerned that the Father seems to have managed to do a runner.

However, I am much more shocked and deeply disgusted that two young girls (nieces I believe) were made to watch the killing.
The mother wanted to watch the killing, according to ITV news.

What sort of twisted faith can make a woman act against what is quite literally the strongest instinct on the face of the planet? It really does beggar belief, and is worth a lot more than 5 years inside, which is what they'll serve at most.
That was news to me. It's your own daughter for God's sake. Wouldn't you just stop and think, 'What the fuck am I doing?'.

It's not too hard. You can keep your traditions and your dress sense. But anything that conflicts with British laws and values, will not and should not, aid integration.
 
#12
OldTimer said:
We are constantly being told that the majority of Muslims are nice peace loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly , perhaps what we are seeing here is the true Muslim and what they stand for.
Does seem very strange that many other cultures have integrated with no problem over the years . The differance is that these other cultures have accepted British laws and customs and not demanded the British change.
Of course, we never hear about the thousands of other cases in which the Muslim family would perhaps like to do the same, but don't because they respect the laws of the UK.

The "other cultures" that you mention preserve their cultural individualities but act according to the laws of the land - that includes the vast majority of Muslims, it's only the extreme cases we get to hear about.

MsG
 
#14
Bugsy7 said:
OldTimer said:
We are constantly being told that the majority of Muslims are nice peace loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly , perhaps what we are seeing here is the true Muslim and what they stand for.
Does seem very strange that many other cultures have integrated with no problem over the years . The differance is that these other cultures have accepted British laws and customs and not demanded the British change.
Of course, we never hear about the thousands of other cases in which the Muslim family would perhaps like to do the same, but don't because they respect the laws of the UK.

The "other cultures" that you mention preserve their cultural individualities but act according to the laws of the land - that includes the vast majority of Muslims, it's only the extreme cases we get to hear about.

MsG
They'd only 'like' to do it? Well that's alright then :roll: .
 
#15
Bugsy7 said:
OldTimer said:
We are constantly being told that the majority of Muslims are nice peace loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly , perhaps what we are seeing here is the true Muslim and what they stand for.
Does seem very strange that many other cultures have integrated with no problem over the years . The differance is that these other cultures have accepted British laws and customs and not demanded the British change.
Of course, we never hear about the thousands of other cases in which the Muslim family would perhaps like to do the same, but don't because they respect the laws of the UK.

The "other cultures" that you mention preserve their cultural individualities but act according to the laws of the land - that includes the vast majority of Muslims, it's only the extreme cases we get to hear about.

MsG
The extremists are more interesting to the media. Examine 2 cases

Case 1
Muslim man walks by woman, bows his said and says "good morning"

Case 2
Muslims man walks by woman, turns around and beats her for not covering herself properly.

Now, who makes the news? Case 1 is more common, but Case 2 is so much more interesting.

Chief_Joseph said:
My friend's family is from Pakistan. Her parents moved to the US when their first daughter was born, because they wanted her to have a better life. As I see it, they can dress how they want, and hang on to some cultural stuff (foods, prayer beads, nice little things) but honour killings are a custom that ought to be left at home. The one we should really look at here is the victim, who WAS integrated.

The problem as I see it (in both the US and UK), is that we don't treat nutters like that as a small extremist splinter group of the muslim community. They want us to think all muslims are like them, because when we pay attention to them, it alienates the sane majority. When they become alienated, they are more vulnerable to recruitment by radicals. Then an ugly cycle begins
I appologize for quoting myself, but I wish to restate my point. Liberals patronize these nutters in a misguided effort to be culturally sensitive, but by treating these people as representatives of their community, it alienates the sane majority of people in these communities.

The whackos gain positions of power, because regular people have jobs, families, and hobbies. The whackos have no meaning in their lives, and fill the void with hatred and ambition. We should not associate these nutters with islam, but rather just look at them as we do any other nutter.
 
#16
CWO_Rtd said:
YOU LOT ARE ALL RACISIT!!!
Is it racisit to object to the murder of a young woman by her own family who live by primitive and unacceptable rules?

Is it racisit to wish to defend and protect that which we have built over centuries?

Is it racist to criticise those who will not conform to civilised rules yet who expect to be allowed to bring their medieval cunture into ours?

Is it racist to exercise our democratic right to condemn that which is abhorrent to us?

The answer must be a resounding NO!
 
#17
Wild_Bill_Frontiersman said:
CWO_Rtd said:
YOU LOT ARE ALL RACISIT!!!
Is it racisit to object to the murder of a young woman by her own family who live by primitive and unacceptable rules?

Is it racisit to wish to defend and protect that which we have built over centuries?

Is it racist to criticise those who will not conform to civilised rules yet who expect to be allowed to bring their medieval cunture into ours?

Is it racist to exercise our democratic right to condemn that which is abhorrent to us?

The answer must be a resounding NO!
Well said that man :!:
 
#18
Chief_Joseph said:
Bugsy7 said:
OldTimer said:
We are constantly being told that the majority of Muslims are nice peace loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly , perhaps what we are seeing here is the true Muslim and what they stand for.
Does seem very strange that many other cultures have integrated with no problem over the years . The differance is that these other cultures have accepted British laws and customs and not demanded the British change.
Of course, we never hear about the thousands of other cases in which the Muslim family would perhaps like to do the same, but don't because they respect the laws of the UK.

The "other cultures" that you mention preserve their cultural individualities but act according to the laws of the land - that includes the vast majority of Muslims, it's only the extreme cases we get to hear about.

MsG
The extremists are more interesting to the media. Examine 2 cases

Case 1
Muslim man walks by woman, bows his said and says "good morning"

Case 2
Muslims man walks by woman, turns around and beats her for not covering herself properly.

Now, who makes the news? Case 1 is more common, but Case 2 is so much more interesting.

Chief_Joseph said:
My friend's family is from Pakistan. Her parents moved to the US when their first daughter was born, because they wanted her to have a better life. As I see it, they can dress how they want, and hang on to some cultural stuff (foods, prayer beads, nice little things) but honour killings are a custom that ought to be left at home. The one we should really look at here is the victim, who WAS integrated.

The problem as I see it (in both the US and UK), is that we don't treat nutters like that as a small extremist splinter group of the muslim community. They want us to think all muslims are like them, because when we pay attention to them, it alienates the sane majority. When they become alienated, they are more vulnerable to recruitment by radicals. Then an ugly cycle begins
I appologize for quoting myself, but I wish to restate my point. Liberals patronize these nutters in a misguided effort to be culturally sensitive, but by treating these people as representatives of their community, it alienates the sane majority of people in these communities.

The whackos gain positions of power, because regular people have jobs, families, and hobbies. The whackos have no meaning in their lives, and fill the void with hatred and ambition. We should not associate these nutters with islam, but rather just look at them as we do any other nutter.
I was on a foot patrol in a town in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War One, when one of those real big army trucks pulled-up in the street and the driver and passenger jumped down to the road.

They were both women in the United States Army and were wearing choc-chip desert uiform with short-sleeved shirts.

Quick as a flash, the Matawa (Religious Police) with their long, bright red beards were on to them, screaming at them in the street and threatening to beat them with the long canes they carry, unless they covered their arms and heads. Our patrol stopped to watch what may happen next, and to assist the female soldiers if necessary, but I am pleased to say that they really did not need any assistance.

The women both drew their pistols, cocked them and pointed them straight at the heads of these screeching fanatics, and told them in good old Anglo Saxon to f*ck off! For some reason, an army-issue pistol has a much more dramatic effect than a cane, no matter how long it is, and the Matawa f*cked off with their tails between their legs.

Wonderful to watch!
 

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