Hong Kong - Its past, the current and future - where is it heading?

Apart from the bits that aren't, you mean? The large private estates, for example?
Land still used for farming, no use no income, I do not think you will get recent rubber boat arrivals to live in council houses in the middle of a grouse moor either. Land also needed for tree planting (as promised at last GE), re wilded and solar farms. Yes, H2S and airport expansion. Final slight problem, land they do not make it anymore.
 
I tell you what I’m “wobbling“ about, look around you and see how crowded this small island of ours is already. Look at how are NHS is struggling even before Covid, look at our over crowded classrooms. Oh and we have a shortage of housing NOW let alone when this lot arrives!!
That is just for starters.
We are already over populated and this influx isn’t going to help, if they are so welcome in Canada I’m sure they can accommodate them but that’s up to them isn’t it!
I doubt there will be a flood of BNO passport holders coming to the UK. There are 300,000 Canadian passport holders in Hong Kong and I haven't seen anything in the news about significant numbers of them leaving Hong Kong and coming back to Canada.

You will probably see some, but a good number of those will go back to Hong Kong once they have their nice shiny new UK passport in hand.
 
I doubt there will be a flood of BNO passport holders coming to the UK. There are 300,000 Canadian passport holders in Hong Kong and I haven't seen anything in the news about significant numbers of them leaving Hong Kong and coming back to Canada.

You will probably see some, but a good number of those will go back to Hong Kong once they have their nice shiny new UK passport in hand.
You weren't advising the Home Offence about the likely numbers arriving in the UK from the new 8 accession countries from Eastern Europe back in 2004 were you?
 
I doubt there will be a flood of BNO passport holders coming to the UK. There are 300,000 Canadian passport holders in Hong Kong and I haven't seen anything in the news about significant numbers of them leaving Hong Kong and coming back to Canada.

You will probably see some, but a good number of those will go back to Hong Kong once they have their nice shiny new UK passport in hand.

We only need to study the pattern of behaviour of families from Hong Kong who have been settled in the UK for a long time to see what may happen. I am reliably informed that those who can, spend six months over the summer in the UK. In September, when it starts to get cold, they go back to a house they own in Hong Kong so that they can enjoy the better weather, shops that are open all night, local food, and the very important New Year Festival and Tomb Sweeping Festival.
If that trend is repeated by Hong Kongers coming to the UK shortly, then they won't be selling up there, they will aim to have a foot in both countries.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
hmmmm.....be interesting to see how post COVID-19 aviation works in that scenario.

Right now BA are not flying direct.

However there appears to be nothing stopping Hong Kongers (or any other residents of PRC ) from landing in eg CDG in France - and travelling onwards by other means.

From the Air France website: https://www.airfrance.com.cn/CN/en/...119.204267752.1617918227-295986163.1617918227


We are glad to take you to re-connect with the world safely with our 3 weekly flights from China to Paris.

Flight No.DateDEPARTUREARRIVAL
Paris->TianjinAF382Thursday23:3515:40 (+1)
Beijing -> ParisAF393Saturday02:3007:45
Paris->ShanghaiAF198Monday/ Thursday20:2516:45 (+1)
Shanghai -> ParisAF193Tuesday/ Friday21:4506:55 (+1)
(All flight times are shown in local time)

COVID-19 TEST REGULATIONS FOR LONG-HAUL FLIGHTS FROM/TO CHINA MAINLAND​

COVID-19 – TRAVEL TO FRANCE - JANUARY 2021

All passengers travelling to France from China must have negative PCR test result within 72 hours before boarding. Travel certificates and 7-day self-isolation are also required upon arrival.

As of January 18th, 2021, all passengers travelling from China to France must obtain negative PCR test result carried out within 72 hours prior to departure (this applies to children from the age of 11) to board the aircraft. Upon arrival, all travelers shall present the required travel certificates (which can be downloaded from the French Ministry of the Interior’s website) and commit to 7-day self-isolation period as well as a second PCR test at the end of that period.

These terms and conditions only apply to passengers whose final destination is France.
T
he entire French territory is concerned, both metropolitan France and overseas territories.

For passengers with connecting flight, the terms and conditions of the country of final destination apply.

Passengers who do not meet these requirements will not be able to board.

Important notice: new regulations of health code application as from 26 February 2021


  • Departure from France

China-bound passengers departing from France must take direct flight; otherwise the QR code with "HS/HDC" mark for boarding will not be issued. These passengers must upload below documents:
(1) test certificates of Covid-19 PCR and IgM antibody tests within 2 days before boarding issued by recognized institutions;
(2) residence permit or visa in France (related certificate to prove French residency).

*Special notice: for staffs working for Chinese enterprises in France, at least 14-day isolation before bounding for China and an isolation commitment issued by the enterprise will be required to apply for health code prior to boarding.
 
What are you wobbling on about? HK Chinese have been a positive influence in Canada and Australia. We won’t see 6 million, more’s the pity, but a large influx would be great.
There are 2 types of Hong Kongers coming to the UK.

The wealthy, who will buy up properties to get their assets out. (HK buyers bought 10% of London's properties in the wealthiest areas last year)

The political activists many of whom having nothing to offer and no money. I have read reports of people being turned away because they cannot even afford the fees. A visa to stay for five years amounts to some £3,370 ($4,760) in fees and a health-care surcharge, while applicants must also show they have enough funds to house and feed themselves for six months.
 
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Just in case anyone was thinking that the UK was the only one offering Hong Kong residents increased opportunities for immigration, here's Canada's announcement from early February.
Canada Launches Hong Kong Pathway that will Attract Recent Graduates and Skilled Workers with Faster Permanent Residency

Essentially, these are targetted measures aimed at attracting people with post-secondary education. Some are based on three year work permits, after which I believe the holder can apply for permanent residence. Hong Kong residents who have graduated from a Canadian post-secondary education institution can apply directly for permanent residence. There are several other immigration paths as well.

These apply to both BNO and SAR passport holders.

I have read in the news that Australia is expected to also be a popular destination for people leaving Hong Kong.

I'm not expecting a major flood of people to leave Hong Kong (unless someone starts WWIII), but those who do leave will have a number of different options to choose from aside from the UK.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
There are 2 types of Hong Kongers coming to the UK.

The wealthy, who will buy up properties to get their assets out. (HK buyers bought 10% of London's properties in the wealthiest areas last year)

The political activists many of whom having nothing to offer and no money. I have read reports of people being turned away because they cannot even afford the fees. A visa to stay for five years amounts to some £3,370 ($4,760) in fees and a health-care surcharge, while applicants must also show they have enough funds to house and feed themselves for six months.
You forgot 3 - dedicated Government apparatchiks sent as sleepers to live among the others and cause trouble for any family they have in Hong Kong.
 
You forgot 3 - dedicated Government apparatchiks sent as sleepers to live among the others and cause trouble for any family they have in Hong Kong.
I think that you are overstating how much the government really cares. They are pretty happy to be rid of many of them.
 
Essentially, these are targetted measures aimed at attracting people with post-secondary education. Some are based on three year work permits, after which I believe the holder can apply for permanent residence. Hong Kong residents who have graduated from a Canadian post-secondary education institution can apply directly for permanent residence. There are several other immigration paths as well.

Essentially, these are targetted measures aimed at attracting people with post-secondary education. Some are based on three year work permits, after which I believe the holder can apply for permanent residence. Hong Kong residents who have graduated from a Canadian post-secondary education institution can apply directly for permanent residence. There are several other immigration paths as well.

I think a lot of people who do not know HK fail to appreciate that the average standard of tertiary education here is not that high (obviously the top strata can hold their own anywhere globally) nor do they understand how poor the level of spoken and written English is even for university graduates (again exceptions apply).
 
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When I look around this small island, I see massive tracts of land entirely unpopulated by anyone.

Sadly by even most of Europe standards they dont even approach massive in proportion to the size of the country - forest areas need doubling at least
The UK isn't overcrowded, it's just appallingly badly distributed. Guess who wants to keep it that way?

Strongly Disagree viz over crowding - but agree with you on distribution

Current UK Population is 65 Million thats about 20 Million* more than it can feed and about 25 - 30 million too many in England. Theres also the issue that seems to be orgotten when people dicuss how many can we feed - Water- and we already have issues in summer in England - adding to the UK population is only going to make matters worse.

As to overcrowding

Further compounding matters is a need to increase forest cover - some of which can at least use marginal farm land and with effort we could re wood the Penines in parts (Thin soil thanks to deforestation complicates this).

Then theres the issue that building new homes further encroaches on farmland and or flood plains.

Ironically perhaps in light of my support o your remarks viz distribution, in order to sustain the population - we need it to be more concentrated (Better distrubeted accross Isle but denser smaller major Urban centres ) -Thus sprawling cities like london need to turn to high density urban estates using more low rises (2-4 storeys) rather than vast estates of terraced housing thus reducing the size of a city for a given population.
That would allow us for example to rewild tracts within the M25 (Actualy the ideal is urban Farm surround then wild - but It probably isnt possible to reclaim farmland not in short to medium term.

In short whilst you can argue open spaces = not over crowded - Others can equally argue that since those big open spaces equate to sustainibility (and also many arent suitable to build** on) then the country is unsustainable as such its over crowded.


*Its currently closer to 25 but a small change in what we farm and stop building on farmland

**On that note major Urban centres tend to be for obvious reasons adjacent to good farm land - logically the best place to build cities would be the highlands and Brecons - to make best use of land availible
 
Sadly by even most of Europe standards they dont even approach massive in proportion to the size of the country - forest areas need doubling at least


Strongly Disagree viz over crowding - but agree with you on distribution

Current UK Population is 65 Million thats about 20 Million* more than it can feed and about 25 - 30 million too many in England. Theres also the issue that seems to be orgotten when people dicuss how many can we feed - Water- and we already have issues in summer in England - adding to the UK population is only going to make matters worse.

As to overcrowding

Further compounding matters is a need to increase forest cover - some of which can at least use marginal farm land and with effort we could re wood the Penines in parts (Thin soil thanks to deforestation complicates this).

Then theres the issue that building new homes further encroaches on farmland and or flood plains.

Ironically perhaps in light of my support o your remarks viz distribution, in order to sustain the population - we need it to be more concentrated (Better distrubeted accross Isle but denser smaller major Urban centres ) -Thus sprawling cities like london need to turn to high density urban estates using more low rises (2-4 storeys) rather than vast estates of terraced housing thus reducing the size of a city for a given population.
That would allow us for example to rewild tracts within the M25 (Actualy the ideal is urban Farm surround then wild - but It probably isnt possible to reclaim farmland not in short to medium term.

In short whilst you can argue open spaces = not over crowded - Others can equally argue that since those big open spaces equate to sustainibility (and also many arent suitable to build** on) then the country is unsustainable as such its over crowded.


*Its currently closer to 25 but a small change in what we farm and stop building on farmland

**On that note major Urban centres tend to be for obvious reasons adjacent to good farm land - logically the best place to build cities would be the highlands and Brecons - to make best use of land availible
A well reasoned and refreshingly courteous response, thank you.
 
Sadly by even most of Europe standards they dont even approach massive in proportion to the size of the country - forest areas need doubling at least


Strongly Disagree viz over crowding - but agree with you on distribution

Current UK Population is 65 Million thats about 20 Million* more than it can feed and about 25 - 30 million too many in England. Theres also the issue that seems to be orgotten when people dicuss how many can we feed - Water- and we already have issues in summer in England - adding to the UK population is only going to make matters worse.

As to overcrowding

Further compounding matters is a need to increase forest cover - some of which can at least use marginal farm land and with effort we could re wood the Penines in parts (Thin soil thanks to deforestation complicates this).

Then theres the issue that building new homes further encroaches on farmland and or flood plains.

Ironically perhaps in light of my support o your remarks viz distribution, in order to sustain the population - we need it to be more concentrated (Better distrubeted accross Isle but denser smaller major Urban centres ) -Thus sprawling cities like london need to turn to high density urban estates using more low rises (2-4 storeys) rather than vast estates of terraced housing thus reducing the size of a city for a given population.
That would allow us for example to rewild tracts within the M25 (Actualy the ideal is urban Farm surround then wild - but It probably isnt possible to reclaim farmland not in short to medium term.

In short whilst you can argue open spaces = not over crowded - Others can equally argue that since those big open spaces equate to sustainibility (and also many arent suitable to build** on) then the country is unsustainable as such its over crowded.


*Its currently closer to 25 but a small change in what we farm and stop building on farmland

**On that note major Urban centres tend to be for obvious reasons adjacent to good farm land - logically the best place to build cities would be the highlands and Brecons - to make best use of land availible
I thought a good pandemic would sort that out but I was wrong.
Over to yo Mr Putin.
 
UK overcrowded?

Population density

UK - 275 people per square kilometer.
Hong Kong - 7140 per square kilometer.
 
UK overcrowded?

Population density

UK - 275 people per square kilometer.
Hong Kong - 7140 per square kilometer.


Detrmining over crowding by pop density isnt really a good methodology

1) Honkong is a city (city state perhaps) - It can never be expected to support itself - UK is a country Parts of which have a population density twice that of HK parts with a density a fraction of that.
Certainly some parts of the UK are over crowded
England at well over 400/ SqKM is amongst the highest in Europe

2) Lybia is almost 3 times the size of the UK - its population is (over) crowded into a very small area and 80 % of the country is empty and uninhabitable.

3 - That Bangladesh is overcrowded and over populated to a more significant degree than the UK - doesnt of itself prove the UK isnt over crowded.
Bangladesh, Nigeria, UK, Germany are all on my list of need to control Pop growth

France USA are on my list of have room for more
 
Sadly by even most of Europe standards they dont even approach massive in proportion to the size of the country - forest areas need doubling at least


Strongly Disagree viz over crowding - but agree with you on distribution

Current UK Population is 65 Million thats about 20 Million* more than it can feed and about 25 - 30 million too many in England. Theres also the issue that seems to be orgotten when people dicuss how many can we feed - Water- and we already have issues in summer in England - adding to the UK population is only going to make matters worse.

As to overcrowding

Further compounding matters is a need to increase forest cover - some of which can at least use marginal farm land and with effort we could re wood the Penines in parts (Thin soil thanks to deforestation complicates this).

Then theres the issue that building new homes further encroaches on farmland and or flood plains.

Ironically perhaps in light of my support o your remarks viz distribution, in order to sustain the population - we need it to be more concentrated (Better distrubeted accross Isle but denser smaller major Urban centres ) -Thus sprawling cities like london need to turn to high density urban estates using more low rises (2-4 storeys) rather than vast estates of terraced housing thus reducing the size of a city for a given population.
That would allow us for example to rewild tracts within the M25 (Actualy the ideal is urban Farm surround then wild - but It probably isnt possible to reclaim farmland not in short to medium term.

In short whilst you can argue open spaces = not over crowded - Others can equally argue that since those big open spaces equate to sustainibility (and also many arent suitable to build** on) then the country is unsustainable as such its over crowded.


*Its currently closer to 25 but a small change in what we farm and stop building on farmland

**On that note major Urban centres tend to be for obvious reasons adjacent to good farm land - logically the best place to build cities would be the highlands and Brecons - to make best use of land availible
65 Million plus illegals ? pushing high 60's?
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
65 Million plus illegals ? pushing high 60's?
Don't the supermarkets claim to be feeding 85 million?

Or is that why everyone is obese these days?
 
Don't the supermarkets claim to be feeding 85 million?

They do say something along those lines
Photex often cites the figure
Or is that why everyone is obese these days?
Which tends to be my comeback theres about 11 million people who seem to be consuming 3 peoples rations - enough to feed 85 doesnt mean there is 85.

I hope the true figure is nearer the official 65M figure
 
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