Hong Kong - Its past, the current and future - where is it heading?

Just noticed this from the South China Morning Post, where it says "and their dependents", which if true suggests yes.

China / Diplomacy
Britain offers millions of Hongkongers residency rights and path to citizenship after national security law implemented
  • Around 3 million holders of the BN(O) passport and their dependents will be allowed to move to UK for five years and then apply for permanent residency
  • Prime Minister Boris Johnson announces new rights after imposition of law Britain says is a ‘clear and serious’ breach of the agreement guaranteeing autonomy
Stuart Lau
Published: 7:47pm, 1 Jul, 2020

Britain offers millions of Hongkongers path to citizenship
I wonder if someone in 'full-time' tertiary education, and hence over the age of eighteen, counts as a dependent? Lots of legal cases on the horizon potentially.

ETA. The article text mentions spouses and under-age children. Is majority at eighteen or twenty-one in HK?
 
You wern't part of the Home Office Planning Dept that estimated that only 13,000 Poles and other East Europeans from the A8 would come to the UK in 2004 were you?
There are 300,000 Canadian citizens in Hong Kong, all of whom can come to Canada right now, and there's been no sign of any significant numbers of them doing so. I'm not sure why BNO passport holders would be different with respect to going to the UK.
 
Prior to '97 I'd have said yes, let em in. Unfortunately, that was the same year that some other twat decided to let everyone else in instead. 3m is a population dump we can well do without.

Will we extend the same invite to those other 'Sons of Empire' who are under an even worse threat: white South Africans?
Fair point about white South Africans. There were something like 5.6 million as of the 2011 census. Of the white population 59% speak Afrikaans as their first language and 35% English.
 
According to this article, the UK have been talking to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the US about them taking a share of any exodus of Hong Kong residents. This does not surprise me, and I suspected that something of this sort was in the works, quite possibly from before the UK made the BNO passport announcement.
Earlier, British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab told parliament the UK had been discussing “burden sharing” with the United States, Australia, Canada and New Zealand to handle an exodus of Hongkongers.
I believe that a mass exodus of a large proportion of eligible Hong Kong residents is unlikely. However, should it occur, then going by previous experience that Canada has had with other emigrants, a major political fall out of it would be to create a political constituency within these countries who would hold a serious grudge against Beijing and who would lobby against any friendly diplomatic relations with them.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
They'd fit in well in Liverpool then, there is already a Chinese quarter, and the indigenous population speak English poorly anyway
If you ever watch an old movie with Audrey Hepburn called the inn of the seventh happiness, all of the Chinese kids were brought in from Liverpool, it was filmed at Portmeirion and Snowdonia National park
they probably thought they were actually in China with all the taffs about
 
Prior to '97 I'd have said yes, let em in. Unfortunately, that was the same year that some other twat decided to let everyone else in instead. 3m is a population dump we can well do without.

Will we extend the same invite to those other 'Sons of Empire' who are under an even worse threat: white South Africans?
South Africa became a self governing dominion in 1910, became effectively independent in the 1930s (Statute of Westminster), and became a republic in 1961. Any moral obligations that Britain may have had to their citizens effectively ended in the 1930s with their independence, and there will be very few South Africans who were alive then who are still alive today.

This is a different situation from Hong Kongers, whose territory was handed over to another country in the 1990s and many of those people are still alive today.

If Britain were to wish to offer preferential immigration terms to white South Africans, that would be its sovereign right, but it's not a situation comparable to Hong Kong, whose history in this regards was unique.
 
South Africa became a self governing dominion in 1910, became effectively independent in the 1930s (Statute of Westminster), and became a republic in 1961. Any moral obligations that Britain may have had to their citizens effectively ended in the 1930s with their independence, and there will be very few South Africans who were alive then who are still alive today.

This is a different situation from Hong Kongers, whose territory was handed over to another country in the 1990s and many of those people are still alive today.

If Britain were to wish to offer preferential immigration terms to white South Africans, that would be its sovereign right, but it's not a situation comparable to Hong Kong, whose history in this regards was unique.
I agree. HK did not fall into the same category of other colonies by simply being granted autonomy as a dominion following independence, but we still feel morally obliged to allow people in from countries that didn't even exist when independence was granted (Bangladesh) or countries that have been allowed into the Commonwealth despite never having been Crown Colonies (Mozambique and Rwanda). SA is still a Commonwealth country and as such moral obligations withstand. Or rather should do.
 
There are 300,000 Canadian citizens in Hong Kong, all of whom can come to Canada right now, and there's been no sign of any significant numbers of them doing so. I'm not sure why BNO passport holders would be different with respect to going to the UK.
A lot of them acquired their Canadian citizenship in the eighties and early nineties before handover. They were the rich Hong Kongers with money and skills who could afford to invest in Canada. They were nicknamed the 'Astronauts' by Hong Kongers as they were alledgedly always in orbit between Vancouver and Hong Kong. 300,000 is different to 3 million.
 
A lot of them acquired their Canadian citizenship in the eighties and early nineties before handover. They were the rich Hong Kongers with money and skills who could afford to invest in Canada. They were nicknamed the 'Astronauts' by Hong Kongers as they were alledgedly always in orbit between Vancouver and Hong Kong. 300,000 is different to 3 million.
Particularly as few of the 3m will have that much money nor any transferable / desirable skills.
 
Oh, and it is a fallacy to think that 3m will just hop on a plane to the UK. The vast majority of people here will be entirely unaffected by the new law. It is likely to have some economic benefits as the city becomes more calm again and will help enable integration into the Greater Bay Area plan - which will turn a domestic market of 7.5m people into one of 70m people.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
According to this article, the UK have been talking to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the US about them taking a share of any exodus of Hong Kong residents. This does not surprise me, and I suspected that something of this sort was in the works, quite possibly from before the UK made the BNO passport announcement.


I believe that a mass exodus of a large proportion of eligible Hong Kong residents is unlikely. However, should it occur, then going by previous experience that Canada has had with other emigrants, a major political fall out of it would be to create a political constituency within these countries who would hold a serious grudge against Beijing and who would lobby against any friendly diplomatic relations with them.
And the Quebecois might get upset as their French ancestry gets diluted. What's not to like?
 
Canada have suspended their extradition treaty with Hong Kong, ostensibly over the new security law. I say "ostensibly", because the ongoing friction between China and Canada over other matters may have increased the willingness of Canada to get involved in this issue.

Also, certain goods deemed sensitive may no longer be exported to Hong Kong either. This seems to mirror recent steps taken by some of Canada's allies (including the US), and almost certainly this decision was taken in close coordination with them.
Canada suspends extradition treaty with Hong Kong over new security law
Canada is suspending its extradition treaty with Hong Kong as part of a package of responses to the new security law China has imposed on the region, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Friday.

Canada will also treat sensitive goods being exported to Hong Kong as if they were being sent to mainland China.

"Effective immediately, Canada will not permit the export of sensitive military items to Hong Kong," Trudeau said in a news conference.
The story also mentions the issue of 2.6 million BNO passport holders and their dependents. No direct announcement was made of their status with respect to Canada, but PM Trudeau did say "In the days and weeks to come, we're also looking at additional measures, including around immigration,".
Britain announced that up to 2.6 million Hong Kong residents will be able to move to the United Kingdom for up to five years and ultimately seek citizenship.

Those are holders of special overseas British passports that have had much more limited rights attached to them until now. Trudeau hinted that something similar might be in the works in Canada.

"In the days and weeks to come, we're also looking at additional measures, including around immigration," he said.
There are currently 300,000 Canadian citizens in Hong Kong. As these are already citizens of Canada, the reference to "immigration" will not refer to them, but almost certainly to BNO passport holders. Just what this means remains to be seen.

Very likely discussion of the latter issue in Canada is a result of being approached by the UK. I would not be surprised if the UK in return will be providing diplomatic support to Canada in Canada's disputes with China.
 
Nathan Law, one of the main activists behind the protests in Hong Kong, has jumped on a plane to London now that things are going pear shaped for the protest movement in Hong Kong.
Activist Nathan Law arrives in Britain after fleeing Hong Kong
"With my backpack and small luggage in hand, I boarded my night flight. I had no idea what future awaited me. Only one thing seemed certain. My destination: London," Law said on Twitter.

"There's always one message I have: Hong Kongers will never give up. We aren't fractured. On the contrary, we're well-equipped to face the next difficult battle." (...)

"For me, leaving Hong Kong is actually more than a personal choice. It's a strategic move for the movement," he said.
It doesn't say in the story whether he has a BNO passport or not, or whether he has some other basis for allowing him to stay in the UK.

From the sounds of it his plans for the future centre around politics rather than business.
 
Nathan Law, one of the main activists behind the protests in Hong Kong, has jumped on a plane to London now that things are going pear shaped for the protest movement in Hong Kong.
Activist Nathan Law arrives in Britain after fleeing Hong Kong


It doesn't say in the story whether he has a BNO passport or not, or whether he has some other basis for allowing him to stay in the UK.

From the sounds of it his plans for the future centre around politics rather than business.
Isn't he supposed to be studying at Yale where, mysteriously, he was offered a full academic scholarship despite having a distinctly unremarkable educational history.
 
Isn't he supposed to be studying at Yale where, mysteriously, he was offered a full academic scholarship despite having a distinctly unremarkable educational history.
*Cough* Yellowbird *Cough*
 
Nathan Law, one of the main activists behind the protests in Hong Kong, has jumped on a plane to London now that things are going pear shaped for the protest movement in Hong Kong.
Activist Nathan Law arrives in Britain after fleeing Hong Kong


It doesn't say in the story whether he has a BNO passport or not, or whether he has some other basis for allowing him to stay in the UK.

From the sounds of it his plans for the future centre around politics rather than business.
While it is natural for someone in his position to want to continue the fight from abroad, I think the deal for most Hong Kong people will be that they move here and integrate.
 
While it is natural for someone in his position to want to continue the fight from abroad, I think the deal for most Hong Kong people will be that they move here and integrate.
I would be very, very, surprised if many people leave. They may well put options in place, BNO / Canadian, etc. just in case, but there will be no mass exodus.
 
Oh, and it is a fallacy to think that 3m will just hop on a plane to the UK. The vast majority of people here will be entirely unaffected by the new law.


This is simply not true, the principle reason for living there is business, money and rule of law, the new law directly affects that and the ramifications will begin to be felt throughout the business ecosytem soon enough, face saving subsidies from Beijing won't last that long.

[/QUOTE]
It is likely to have some economic benefits as the city becomes more calm again and will help enable integration into the Greater Bay Area plan - which will turn a domestic market of 7.5m people into one of 70m people.
[/QUOTE]

Which means Hong Kong just becomes another PRC city and the unique advantages that have allowed it to prosper dissapate over the next few years. Laowai on the make will continue to hustle as usual as they are and were only really windowdressing, and it not as if there is work elsewhere for them now that Dubai has gone down the tubes.

It will be interesting to see how HK performs in the Greater Bay area plan roll out you extol, a domestic market of 7.5 sophisticated HK's replaced by a 70 million + one of mainlanders all chistling margins as only Chinese competing with Chinese can. HK will be fast absorbed apart from the bits kept on for the PRC Tourist industry.

Hong Kongers are not popular on the mainland, never have been, doubley so now, they will be drinking from the cup of bitterness offered by their countrymen on the mainland in deal after deal no doubt while being politely reminded of their special status within the PRC.

Also HK as a location for mainland SME business will begin to dry up - to howls from Kowloon, HK's rule of law was treasured by all business people all over the PRC.
 

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