Hong Kong - Its past, the current and future - where is it heading?

Watching the videos this evening of the rioters destroying Central station, setting fires and taking iron bars to glass coverings around the street entrance, I am at an utter loss to understand why the police didn't steam in and arrest the perpetrators. Can the UK, or other nations possessed of similarly 'robust' police not provide training in tactics such as kettling and snatch squads?
It's likely due to PR and optics of the situation. But I agree - some people trash stuff just because...
 
It's likely due to PR and optics of the situation. But I agree - some people trash stuff just because...

Yes, the optics are not good for the protesters.
Watching mainland China TV news is very instructive to see how people outside of the SAR see it going down in Hong Kong
Anarchy, violence, rioting yoots, terrified ordinary folk...... police showing great restraint while protecting the ordinary people.
 
Because East Asian authorities outside of the PRC tend to lean on the side of leniency so as to avoid the shadows of their authoritarian pasts. You should have seen the pussyfooting during the Sunflower Movement in Taipei.
"their authoritarian pasts"?? The vast majority of East Asian countries have an authoritarian present!

A lot of it is down to an East Asian psyche that many Westerners can never understand. In the West things escalate in any confrontation - they build up, and there are clear "levels". Seldom so in the East. It's the difference between having an accelerator or a dimmer switch where you can vary the intensity and just having an "on / off" switch.
 
"their authoritarian pasts"?? The vast majority of East Asian countries have an authoritarian present!
RoK, Japan, Taiwan have all moved on from those days and are now multiparty democracies where police brutality is a flashpoint issue in public opinion. Using Taiwan as a prime example, the KMT are terrified of being associated with the use of force by the police precisely due to their past history and ironically the current government can get away with far more in the way of knocking heads together.
 
RoK, Japan, Taiwan have all moved on from those days and are now multiparty democracies where police brutality is a flashpoint issue in public opinion. Using Taiwan as a prime example, the KMT are terrified of being associated with the use of force by the police precisely due to their past history and ironically the current government can get away with far more in the way of knocking heads together.
You're quite right - I was wrongly thinking of the considerably larger "eastern Asia", including ASEAN, etc, rather than the much narrower "East Asia" of only half a dozen countries. Funnily enough, despite the variety and number of other countries that covers, there are still only the same three that have "moved on".
 

pete49

Old-Salt
Just seen on ITV a news reporter giving a commentry on events wearing a respirator, couldn’t understand a thing , all kicking off again
 
I know that the western media is very pro-protester but here is a video that shows what the police up against, apart from the bricks, petrol bombs and vandalsim


Speaking with someone on Friday who knows the family well, one of HK's most senior police officers has had his children photographed outside of their school and they have also suffered verbal abuse, in front of the class, from a teacher at a non-school event.

Michael Yon has now banned me from his page as I have the temerity to point out that Hong is not undergoing revolution nor insurgency (his words) although I think the final straw was when I pointed out that protester numbers are falling. It doesn't sit well with his anti-China narrative - which his American audiences absolutely lap up. Who knew that there was so many friends of HK in Buttfuck Alabama (insert your own preferred backwater as you see fit).
 
I know that the western media is very pro-protester but here is a video that shows what the police up against, apart from the bricks, petrol bombs and vandalsim


Speaking with someone on Friday who knows the family well, one of HK's most senior police officers has had his children photographed outside of their school and they have also suffered verbal abuse, in front of the class, from a teacher at a non-school event.

Michael Yon has now banned me from his page as I have the temerity to point out that Hong is not undergoing revolution nor insurgency (his words) although I think the final straw was when I pointed out that protester numbers are falling. It doesn't sit well with his anti-China narrative - which his American audiences absolutely lap up. Who knew that there was so many friends of HK in Buttfuck Alabama (insert your own preferred backwater as you see fit).
So far as Americans are concerned at the moment, any stick is good enough to beat the dog with when it comes to China. It has a lot to do with their current trade and diplomatic disputes with China I doubt that their present concern with Hong Kong is genuine or long lasting.
 
And meanwhile in Canada, opinion in the Chinese-Canadian community appears to be split with some siding with the government and some siding with the protesters.
A former Ontario cabinet minister, who held the province’s immigration and international trade portfolios under two Liberal premiers, has denounced acts of violence during the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong as the work of foreign actors intent on undermining the state of China.

Former MPP Michael Chan, in a recent interview with Chinanews, a Chinese state-backed news site, condemned the city’s anti-government protesters and applauded Hong Kong police for showing restraint in the crisis.
Here's another interesting quote that suggests opinions amongst Chinese-Canadians are split as to the current events. Note in particular the current MP saying there is a "diversity of views" amongst her constituents on the matter.
The area that Mr. Chan once represented provincially is now held federally by Small Business Minister Mary Ng. A spokeswoman for Ms. Ng said the minister was aware of the rally, but declined to comment on whether Mr. Chan’s views are shared by many of Ms. Ng’s constituents.

Ms. Ng said in a statement that it is important that the situation in Hong Kong be de-escalated, and there is a diversity of views among Chinese Canadians as to how this can happen.

The story also makes an interesting point that there were Japanese media reports that said they interviewed one of the protest leaders who said that Japan could send Japanese troops to Hong Kong to "protect" Japanese citizens there. The protest leader in question (Agnes Chan) denied that she said this, but the overall situation was not well received in Hong Kong due to Japan's history in the area.

I hadn't heard of this and wonder if anyone who was well informed on this can shed some light on what happened here.
 
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smeg-head

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My twopennorth! If ex-pat Brits and other aliens don't like what is going on they can always leave. China hustled us out of HK as soon as, so the best thing we can do is keep out of it.
Nothing inflames a crowd more than seeing Johnny foreigner sticking his oar in. Even worse are the retired ex-army officer types who persist in thinking that their input matters rather than keeping the feck away.
 
So far as Americans are concerned at the moment, any stick is good enough to beat the dog with when it comes to China. It has a lot to do with their current trade and diplomatic disputes with China I doubt that their present concern with Hong Kong is genuine or long lasting.
Exactly this. There is a, terribly misguided, impression that the US, and the US media, actually cares about the people of HK. Its all about geopolitics and trade. They are going to be sorely disappointed.
 
My twopennorth! If ex-pat Brits and other aliens don't like what is going on they can always leave. China hustled us out of HK as soon as, so the best thing we can do is keep out of it.
Nothing inflames a crowd more than seeing Johnny foreigner sticking his oar in. Even worse are the retired ex-army officer types who persist in thinking that their input matters rather than keeping the feck away.
According to various news reports there are 300,000 Canadian citizens living in Hong Kong. While I'm sure we love them all, if things go serious wrong in Hong Kong I'm not sure we would look forward to them all deciding to decamp to Canada between now and Christmas and appear in Vancouver and Toronto with suitcases in hand and not much else. I suspect the UK is in a similar boat as Canada, but on a larger scale.

Hence, countries with an actual stake in the game are most likely hoping that things will quiet down somehow.
 
The protests' honestly-not-leaders have been coming up with all kinds of pipedreams about outside intervention, the Japanese are just the latest fantasy.

That this was even suggested shows how great the generational gulf is in HK.
 
The protests' honestly-not-leaders have been coming up with all kinds of pipedreams about outside intervention, the Japanese are just the latest fantasy.

That this was even suggested shows how great the generational gulf is in HK.
In fairness, much as I don't like him, Joshua Wong did say, last week in an interview with Die Welt, that HK is part of China and that is not in dispute and that they are only seeking universal suffrage.

Nathan Lam, meanwhile, has, mysteriously, been offered a full scholarship to Harvard Law School, despite being, at best, mediocre academically. Another student leader announced, at the weekend, that he is 'fleeing' Hong Kong because he feels "threatened" by the anti-protester supporters. Given his support of all of the violence so far the irony is delicious.

The 'leaders' are running away and protester numbers are falling. Beijing has, evidently, decided that HK can sort its own mess out* and they are not going to intervene so as not to give the Americans any ammunition in the trade war.

Xi has far more important things on his mind such as falling approval in his own party ranks, soaring price of pork, companies moving manufacturing to cheaper locales such as Vietnam (this has been ongoing for a while and more related to wage inflation than tariffs), a possible, lending led, banking crisis and falling GDP.

No wonder Michael Yon has blocked me :D
 
Xi has far more important things on his mind such as falling approval in his own party ranks, soaring price of pork, companies moving manufacturing to cheaper locales such as Vietnam (this has been ongoing for a while and more related to wage inflation than tariffs), a possible, lending led, banking crisis and falling GDP.
The loss of low-end manufacturing isn't the whole story.

MANY FOREIGN FIRMS IN CHINA, ESPECIALLY US FIRMS, ARE THERE TO PRODUCE GOODS TO SELL IN CHINA
 

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