Hong Kong - Its past, the current and future - where is it heading?

Trying to avoid it I would hope

Possibly, but it’s rather ironic that a piece of legacy HK legislation from British rule could be invoked by Beijing to utterly crush HK and take it over lock, stock and at the barrel of a gun, and all perfectly LegCo compliant.
 
Possibly, but it’s rather ironic that a piece of legacy HK legislation from British rule could be invoked by Beijing to utterly crush HK and take it over lock, stock and at the barrel of a gun, and all perfectly LegCo compliant.
They don't need it. Basic Law already allows them to take whatever action they feel necessary in the event of a severe breakdown of law and order in HK.

It would be a delicious piece of irony if the SARGOV invoked that legacy law but I doubt their critics would care that it wasn't a Chinese work.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
I have noticed some senior police officers directing the violence against the people who are white. Are they British? If so have they no shame?
 
I have noticed some senior police officers directing the violence against the people who are white. Are they British? If so have they no shame?
There are at least two Anglo senior officers; some of the UK news channels have tried to interview them with no success.

E2A: make that three.

'At the center of the heavily criticized police response to the recent protests are three senior British police officers: chief superintendent Rupert Dover, senior superintendent David Jordan, and superintendent Justin Shave.'

 
I have noticed some senior police officers directing the violence against the people who are white. Are they British? If so have they no shame?
What "violence" ?

What, exactly, should they be ashamed of?

They've been on the receiving end of repeated and orchestrated assaults and have reacted as can only be expected - with considerably more restraint than that exhibited by any Western police under comparable circumstances, be they French, German or British, and with a great deal more restraint than that shown on many occasions by the British Army in the UK.
There are at least two Anglo senior officers; some of the UK news channels have tried to interview them with no success.

E2A: make that three.

'At the center of the heavily criticized police response to the recent protests are three senior British police officers: chief superintendent Rupert Dover, senior superintendent David Jordan, and superintendent Justin Shave.'

The linked article is wildly inaccurate in all aspects, particularly the supposed 1960's and 70's tactics and equipment used - it's pure uninformed nonsense as tactics have changed of necessity to keep pace with changes in technology (on both sides).

It's a seriously bad (and worse researched) article, written by a Brit student who co-founded "Brits for Hong Kong", an anti-PRC pressure group for an entirely autonomous Hong Kong.
 
What "violence" ?

What, exactly, should they be ashamed of?

They've been on the receiving end of repeated and orchestrated assaults and have reacted as can only be expected - with considerably more restraint than that exhibited by any Western police under comparable circumstances, be they French, German or British, and with a great deal more restraint than that shown on many occasions by the British Army in the UK.
The linked article is wildly inaccurate in all aspects, particularly the supposed 1960's and 70's tactics and equipment used - it's pure uninformed nonsense as tactics have changed of necessity to keep pace with changes in technology (on both sides).

It's a seriously bad (and worse researched) article, written by a Brit student who co-founded "Brits for Hong Kong", an anti-PRC pressure group for an entirely autonomous Hong Kong.
Generally with more restraint. But not always:

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There are at least two Anglo senior officers; some of the UK news channels have tried to interview them with no success.

E2A: make that three.

'At the center of the heavily criticized police response to the recent protests are three senior British police officers: chief superintendent Rupert Dover, senior superintendent David Jordan, and superintendent Justin Shave.'


More than a few British officers in 2016

 
Except that, obviously, you only read things that appeal to you and ignore others.
Just a few days ago, Labour (McDonnell on BBC Radio) said the Chinese must stick to the agreement of "one country, two systems" and that the UK government must reinforce that standpoint to China.

This was reported on Reuters and the BBC but, obviously, not on the stuff you read.
Double standards? No whatever.....
News to me. I don't listen to BBC radio as mush as I used to.

I get the impression from your comments Mc Donnell was more into sticking one on the UK government than showing an interest in the situation in Hong Kong.
 
I have noticed some senior police officers directing the violence against the people who are white. Are they British? If so have they no shame?
If you think that they are 'directing violence against the protesters' then you have absolutely no clue what is really happening here. Are you American?
 
Do you know the context to those pictures?

I am going to have a a wild guess that the answer is 'no'.
I'm not sure about the first one, but the second one seems to be either from a video or a still taken at the same time where the protesters were smashing up a subway station using crowbars. They were smashing banking machines, tearing down light fixtures, smashing electronic signs, turning on fire hoses and flooding the station, breaking down doors, and stuff like that. When the riot police arrived in force the protesters appeared to have tried to make a get away via the subway train, but the riot police had stopped the train and seemed to be going through them looking for particular individuals.

In the scene in the second photo we couldn't see how that specific incident started, but the police had been in some sort of direct tussle with those protesters but then backed off and gave them a dose of pepper spray before going back in to retrieve their pepper spray cannister, which you can see lying on the ground there. The police then left them there where they proceeded to put on a big act of crying and screaming for the video camera rather unconvincingly.
 
Do you know the context to those pictures?

I am going to have a a wild guess that the answer is 'no'.
Happy to be enlightened, which @terminal has done. I'd be happier if I knew that those specific protesters had been vandalising the MRT station and were not just protesters in the wrong place. If they were suspected of vandalism why, after a beating, were they not arrested?
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
Oh good heavens above! I have no axe to grind one way or the other with regard to the situation in Hong Kong but, dear me, posters on a forum related to the British Army condemning the excessive violence of the Hong Kong police would be funny if they weren't so absurd.

Have none of you any recollection of how the British Army and RUC handled such riots?

Just for the record in the last major riot I saw in the UK I personally witnessed a ten-and-a-half ton Saxon APC being driven at high speed at and then over a young fella standing behind a piece of plywood. Council workers were still hosing bits of him off the street the next morning.

Excessive violence my arsse.
 
Oh good heavens above! I have no axe to grind one way or the other with regard to the situation in Hong Kong but, dear me, posters on a forum related to the British Army condemning the excessive violence of the Hong Kong police would be funny if they weren't so absurd.

Have none of you any recollection of how the British Army and RUC handled such riots?

Just for the record in the last major riot I saw in the UK I personally witnessed a ten-and-a-half ton Saxon APC being driven at high speed at and then over a young fella standing behind a piece of plywood. Council workers were still hosing bits of him off the street the next morning.

Excessive violence my arsse.
Exactly - the idea that the police have over-reacted and are running amok is just farcical. Compare anything seen in the press or even edited and on social media with what was routine in NI and is currently routine under very similar circumstances in France or Germany and they've shown an extraordinary amount of restraint, particularly in the light (no pun intended) of the use of laser pointers - under the Yellow Card regs they could have been shot.

Their job is to uphold the rule of law, regardless of whether they (or we) agree with it or not and they've done that as well as any could have.

What the protesters are now demanding (universal suffrage, election of all up to and including the Chief Executive, etc) goes way beyond anything under British rule or anything even considered or suggested under the Basic Law or "One Country, Two Systems". Anyone outside supporting it is not only living in La-La Land but, assuming they were around pre-1997 and didn't support similar moves in a similar way, is a hypocrite of the highest order.
 
Watching the videos this evening of the rioters destroying Central station, setting fires and taking iron bars to glass coverings around the street entrance, I am at an utter loss to understand why the police didn't steam in and arrest the perpetrators. Can the UK, or other nations possessed of similarly 'robust' police not provide training in tactics such as kettling and snatch squads?
 
Watching the videos this evening of the rioters destroying Central station, setting fires and taking iron bars to glass coverings around the street entrance, I am at an utter loss to understand why the police didn't steam in and arrest the perpetrators.
Because East Asian authorities outside of the PRC tend to lean on the side of leniency so as to avoid the shadows of their authoritarian pasts. You should have seen the pussyfooting during the Sunflower Movement in Taipei.
 

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