Hong Kong - Its past, the current and future - where is it heading?

Since it was written into the handover agreement that one day they would, it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.
I posted earlier that 3 months ago the Chinese ambassador to the EU made a short speech that the Tianerman square clampdown was a good thing as it prevented any further trouble in China for 30 years.
And then, very conveniently this pops up and gets ever further out of hand.
 
The British are quite good at patting themselves on the back, particularly when it comes to diplomacy. The reality, especially during the retreat from empire, was that it was often handled very badly, India being a case in point.

In the case of Hong Kong, the starting point was that we had no real historic justification for being there. Our presence in HK was based upon a moribund treaty hatched up while China was under duress, in order that we might continue poisoning very profitably the Chinese population with opium.

Latterly, reality sank in and we realised that we no longer had the means or the capability to defend the colony from mainland China, nor from anybody else (the Japanese taught us that).

We conducted the withdrawal negotiations as if we fully expected the PRC to be jolly good chaps and to play by the rules of cricket - at least for the following fifty years.

We had absolutely no means of ensuring that the treaty was adhered to once the PRC had control.

Nothing very much about which to beat our breasts in pride or to mark up as a resounding success, although I daresay Chris Patten is still dining out on it.
Whilst I do not really disagree with you in the post IMHO the major problem with India was that Ghandi was a POS and most of India's problems stem from him.
 
Whilst I do not really disagree with you in the post IMHO the major problem with India was that Ghandi was a POS and most of India's problems stem from him.
Perhaps he was, but he was a proponent of religious pluralism and he opposed the Partition to which Britain acceded.
 
It was never going to end well but what do you do, renege on your contract, claim the land? We did what we should have done, we are not an Empire, it isnt the 1800's.

Britain showed them democracy but doesn't owe them a thing, yes I would prefer HK immigrants than the sh1t we get from the Middle East and Africa and would accept them all, far better minds that China and would be a credit to the UK.

Whilst I really dont want a loss of life, the pervert in me wants to see if the West do anything if China have the crazies to do another Tienanmen Square.
 

4(T)

LE
Perhaps he was, but he was a proponent of religious pluralism and he opposed the Partition to which Britain acceded.

They went on to immediately murder about 2 million of each other even despite the religion-based partition. There wasn't ever the slightest chance that pluralism would occur in a single state entity containing two dominant ultra-conservative religious groups.


 
They went on to immediately murder about 2 million of each other even despite the religion-based partition. There wasn't ever the slightest chance that pluralism would occur in a single state entity containing two dominant ultra-conservative religious groups.
Well they kind of muddled on for several centuries before the British arrived.
 
Perhaps he was, but he was a proponent of religious pluralism and he opposed the Partition to which Britain acceded.
But he was a misogamist and did nothing about the caste system.
I suspect his religious pluralism was about keeping the sub continent as one state rather than anything else.
As for his pacifism he only went for that after being convinced that the British would easily put down any attempt to grab independence by force, mostly by using native forces. You may gather I am not a fan.
 

4(T)

LE
Well they kind of muddled on for several centuries before the British arrived.
....and continued to do so even better under British rule. It was of course their nice nationalist/pro-independence leaders who whipped them up into murderous genocidal frenzy.

The British, forced to give up India probably thirty to fifty years before it was ready for self-government, simply had to make the best macro decision possible under the circumstances.

One that has worked very well in fact (possibly less for Bangladesh/East Pakistan, which was never a viable state), save for the volatile nature of the inhabitants. Can you imagine a non-partitioned India and Pakistan as one peaceful entity today?
 
....and continued to do so even better under British rule. It was of course their nice nationalist/pro-independence leaders who whipped them up into murderous genocidal frenzy.

The British, forced to give up India probably thirty to fifty years before it was ready for self-government, simply had to make the best macro decision possible under the circumstances.

One that has worked very well in fact (possibly less for Bangladesh/East Pakistan, which was never a viable state), save for the volatile nature of the inhabitants. Can you imagine a non-partitioned India and Pakistan as one peaceful entity today?
Unfortunately only if one intolerant part of the entity was to be changed or eradicated.
 
Well the DOW is shitting due to events in Hong Kong and it seems the PLA is massing at the border. Any takers on Chinese intervention.?
 
Since it was written into the handover agreement that one day they would, it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.
I agree...except...the agreement also had a clause that it would leave HK alone with regards to existing laws for about 40/50 (?) years..
 
It does seem to have all the inevitability of a classic Greek tragedy. The Chinese are going to come down hard.Especially after the Airport shenanigans. I dont know if the protesters are hoping someone will come to their aid. But no one will. Could the whole thing now be orchestrated by China. As an excuse to finally get a grip on the place?
One thing that is immediately apparent from the news footage is the demographic of the protestors .
They all appear to be at least under thirty and mostly under 25 .They have no first hand knowledge of Tiannamen Sq and must have a very naive preception of the world view of their protest .
They hail back to a time few of them knew ( British rule ) and think that the free world will pile in on their behalf .
I should imagine if there is another protest like the airport one , the PLA will pile in and that'll be it .
And I'll never get to know Jo Banana's , Wonchai or the HK 7's ....Arrse ! :mad:
 
I agree...except...the agreement also had a clause that it would leave HK alone with regards to existing laws for about 40/50 (?) years..
No, it said that HK would enjoy a high level of autonomy based on its existing systems where this did not conflict with the security of the PRC. It also said that assessment of said security lies solely and exclusively with the sovereign power, the PRC.

Hong Kong Basic Law.

Article 18
...
In the event that the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress decides to declare a state of war or, by reason of turmoil within the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region which endangers national unity or security and is beyond the control of the government of the Region, decides that the Region is in a state of emergency, the Central People's Government may issue an order applying the relevant national laws in the Region.
 

Serpico

Old-Salt
Yes, there does seem to be a stunning amount of naivety going on amongst the protesters, surely they get that HK is going to be Chinese again whether they like it or not. They have to aware they are about to get slapped down hard, and that their involvement will at best see their chances in life severely dimished, and at worst see them getting a bullet or 20 years in a gulag.

Yet they don't seem to be aware of this, and their life isn't that bad (yet) that their actions come from desperation. I wonder what those Extinction Rebellion clowns would do if faced with the PLA? Gonnae be interesting times ahead, glad this revolution/massacre will be televised
 
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Britain showed them democracy

The British rule of Hong Kong was many things, but ‘democratic’ wasn’t one of them.
It was benevolent dictatorship, exactly like China is now run.
The protestors are looking for something that never was and they never had.
 
The British rule of Hong Kong was many things, but ‘democratic’ wasn’t one of them.
It was benevolent dictatorship, exactly like China is now run.
The protestors are looking for something that never was and they never had.
I've got a feeling that those under direct Chinese rule are going to find it is going to go back to the old very repressive ways, and that will also apply to places that will come under direct Chinese rule, which is likely to include in order, Hong Kong, Macau, than quite possibly Taiwan, than after that, any other country the PRC can get away with occupying with little or no reaction from the West.

As for Brit expats in HK at this time, it might just pay to have a couple of bags packed for a quick exit. You may just need it.
 
Well the DOW is shitting due to events in Hong Kong and it seems the PLA is massing at the border. Any takers on Chinese intervention.?
I think you might find it is south for the Dow and other indexes from here on in.

The word on the (Wall) Street is about the imminent recession.


Latest on the BBC is that the DJIA is down by 2.31% in today's trading session so far. The European markets have closed down, albeit by a lesser percentage.

 
I've got a feeling that those under direct Chinese rule are going to find it is going to go back to the old very repressive ways, and that will also apply to places that will come under direct Chinese rule, which is likely to include in order, Hong Kong, Macau, than quite possibly Taiwan, than after that, any other country the PRC can get away with occupying with little or no reaction from the West.

As for Brit expats in HK at this time, it might just pay to have a couple of bags packed for a quick exit. You may just need it.

The students don’t seem to have any traction with the majority of HK residents who just want a quiet life.

That seems to be the secret of Beijing’s rule - just get on with life and leave politics alone, and the Regime leaves you alone.

The Chinese have a curse, ‘may you live in interesting times’.....the population of HK don’t seem to want to live in interesting times.
 

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