Holocaust Memorial in Westminster - to open in 2024

There's a rich vein of irony running right through this thread about the atrocious "lefties" and their objection to "our" ( i.e patriotic Brits') memorial. As mentioned above, the British ruling classes thought Hitler was a bit of darling throughout the 1930's, whether it was Lord Rothermere (Harold Harmsworth) fêting the Nazis via the Daily Mail and its right leaning readership (quelle surprise), or the Daily Mail's gushing praise of Mosely's blackshirts, and of course, dear old Edward VIII and his fascist sympathizer wife, Wallis Simpson. Until Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, it was hard to hear a wrong word about the good he was bringing to Germany.

The point is simply that Britain and Brits did not naturally or easily come to understand or accept the evils and terrors of Nazism. It took years of fighting across Europe and the discovery of the death camps before the true amplitude and scale of the evil was discovered and believed. But not believed by all. The memorial is fine in concept, but don't use it to dilute the fact that Anti-fascism was not the default position of the British ruling classes in 1939.

And, even today, anti Semitism is rife in certain circles, both political and social.
It's funny that when this is brought up, nobody ever mentions the Daily Mirror's identical support for Mosely's Blackshirts and their headline "Give the Blackshirts a helping hand!"

Believe it or not, even the Guardian has pointed this out: Don't damn the Daily Mail for its fascist flirtation 80 years ago
 

Eyes_Right

Old-Salt
It's funny that when this is brought up, nobody ever mentions the Daily Mirror's identical support for Mosely's Blackshirts and their headline "Give the Blackshirts a helping hand!"

Believe it or not, even the Guardian has pointed this out: Don't damn the Daily Mail for its fascist flirtation 80 years ago

Right, but after the war the Mirror rebranded itself as the champion of the working class, Andy Capp and all, but Daily Mail has never bothered to try wash off that distinctive right wing taint, especially under Dacre. Now the Mirror had that slight problem with Robert Maxwell, but at least Maxwell won the MC fighting Nazis, rather than holding cocktail parties for them. Admittedly, that is almost cancelled out by letting that festering **** pustule Morgan almost subsequently destroy its reputation, but at least we never hear much about him these days, hey?
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
Right, but after the war the Mirror rebranded itself as the champion of the working class, Andy Capp and all, but Daily Mail has never bothered to try wash off that distinctive right wing taint, especially under Dacre. Now the Mirror had that slight problem with Robert Maxwell, but at least Maxwell won the MC fighting Nazis, rather than holding cocktail parties for them. Admittedly, that is almost cancelled out by letting that festering **** pustule Morgan almost subsequently destroy its reputation, but at least we never hear much about him these days, hey?
Robert Maxwell got his MC for fighting the Germans.
 

Yokel

LE
Robert Maxwell got his MC for fighting the Germans.

True but without the Nazis we would probably not have been fighting them again twenty one years after the 1914 - 1918 war.

Shame he raided the pensions finds of his employees.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
The Chinese are doing this as we speak, as are many African countries, slave labour is a thing today, it was a thing 2 thousand years ago and unless we are extinct in the next 2 thousand years, it will probably still be a thing.
Well that’s alright then. Slave labour is just a thing so we ought to get used to it?

How will you feel when they come for you?
 
Well that’s alright then. Slave labour is just a thing so we ought to get used to it?

How will you feel when they come for you?
Who said I was alright with it? That's speculation on your part dude and nothing more. Personally I find the way they some people treat others as abhorrent, especially how ISIS treated people, how the Serbs treated the people in Kosovo, How the Chinese enslave people and how some of these African people enslave and treat each other, How some in the middle east treat others, etc.
We live in a shitty world where money talks and poor people are generally the ones that suffer. In an ideal world none of this would happen. However, by far this isn't a western problem - the further east of USA/UK you get, the crapper the world seems to get.
 

Yokel

LE
True but without the Nazis we would probably not have been fighting them again twenty one years after the 1914 - 1918 war.

Shame he raided the pensions finds of his employees.

I got a bullshit for this. I do not think it was for pointing out that Robert Maxwell stole from his employees.

If the Nazis had not been allowed to rearm and set upon a course of aggressive (remilitarisation of the Rhineland, annexation of Austria, invasion of Czechoslovakia) then there would have been no war in 1939.

Appeasement has a lot to answer for.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
I got a bullshit for this. I do not think it was for pointing out that Robert Maxwell stole from his employees.

If the Nazis had not been allowed to rearm and set upon a course of aggressive (remilitarisation of the Rhineland, annexation of Austria, invasion of Czechoslovakia) then there would have been no war in 1939.

Appeasement has a lot to answer for.

I am not surprised because it would seem you have not really read into the history of Germany (and the attitude of the League of Nations) following the Great War.
 
Mostly the Daily Mail.
Incorrect.

There was a fascination with facism in the 30s.

The daily mail well and truly turned its back on facism by 1935.

ironically, Hitlers charm offensive on the U.K. in the 30s bares striking resemblance to how the EU has tried to influence politics.
 
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I got a bullshit for this. I do not think it was for pointing out that Robert Maxwell stole from his employees.

If the Nazis had not been allowed to rearm and set upon a course of aggressive (remilitarisation of the Rhineland, annexation of Austria, invasion of Czechoslovakia) then there would have been no war in 1939.

Appeasement has a lot to answer for.
Wasn't appeasement the period during which we tried to catch up with the Germans, in terms of military infrastructure and resources? It wasn't simply a few years of looking the other way and eating cucumber sandwiches.
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
Dont bite me head off , but just why are we building such a memorial ?
I know that its very appropriate for those countries who were directly affected by the Holocaust .
We built a memorial to the civis who were killed in the blitz, again worthwhile .
 
Dont bite me head off , but just why are we building such a memorial ?
I know that its very appropriate for those countries who were directly affected by the Holocaust .
We built a memorial to the civis who were killed in the blitz, again worthwhile .
Does seem, to me, quite hypocritical in some ways, given the post war blockades as the Holocaust survivors all tried desperately to get to Palestine/Israel.
 
Does seem, to me, quite hypocritical in some ways, given the post war blockades as the Holocaust survivors all tried desperately to get to Palestine/Israel.
We also have a memorial to the Holocaust already.

it smacks of a bit of a political decision.

the wooing of the community who follows the religion of peace, labours endemic anti Semitism. I can’t help but feel it’s a gesture to let the Jewish community know that they’re not forgotten .
 
I can’t help but feel it’s a gesture to let the Jewish community know that they’re not forgotten .
Look at how Labour has been acting recently with it's anti Semitism problem - these people need a constant reminder.

As for the Jewish and how they were treated, this should never be forgotten by anyone, ever - period. Some people need a reminder of how some of the axis forces acted so that they don't forget how evil people act when they think they can get away with it. If you ask me, there should be memorials in every city and town and village in the country and a day (on par remembrance day) with every TV channel showing the concentration camps and their liberation, the piles of body's, and true stories of how people were murdered and treated by the Nazi/Germans and the Japanese etc, and how cruel and inhumane these people acted to their fellow humans.
 

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