Holocaust Memorial in Westminster - to open in 2024

About time to, and I have no idea why Westminster council rejected this?


You can't have the left trying to whitewash history and I am happy the the government of today have seen fit to open this. Every schoolchild throughout the land should be taught about what the Nazi's did to millions of innocent men, women and children - how they systematically tortured/murdered/enslaved/experimented on people that they thought of as less than animals.

Well done to the politicians that got this through, finally the government are doing something correctly. (This and getting Brexit done).
 
Last edited:

Perhaps, in the current budgetary climate, not the most pressing item for action?

'Some £75m of public money has already been set aside towards construction costs...'
 
Perhaps, in the current budgetary climate, not the most pressing item for action?

'Some £75m of public money has already been set aside towards construction costs...'
Better spending on this which will draw in visitors from home and abroad - than sending money to countries such as China and India (both which have their own space programs) in foreign aid, or sending billions to the EU every year. At least we are getting something for our money.
 

philc

LE
Perhaps, in the current budgetary climate, not the most pressing item for action?

'Some £75m of public money has already been set aside towards construction costs...'

Fine public subscription then, I would chip in plus the Jews control the banks ad nauseum and the press and er every thing.
 
Fine public subscription then, I would chip in plus the Jews control the banks ad nauseum and the press and er every thing.

I'm sure your donation will be greatly appreciated. If you'd read the OP's source - 'Some £75m of public money has already been set aside towards construction costs, with another £25m to come from charitable donations.'
 
why Westminster council rejected this

There have been a number of objections about the fact that it will pretty much destroy the park (which is Grade II listed) that it's going to be in.

The objectors include a number of fairly prominent Jewish figures who welcome the creation of a memorial, but who think it's in completely the wrong place. The campaign to save the park is being led by Baroness Deech, the most obvious example of a prominent Jewish figure being against the location of the thing.

I suspect that there is also a fear that the result will be a bit 'Diana's fountain', in keeping with so many of these projects where the pretension of the designer through the use of symbolism is rather lost on the visitors who conclude that it's all a bit s**t...
 

philc

LE
I'm sure your donation will be greatly appreciated. If you'd read the OP's source - 'Some £75m of public money has already been set aside towards construction costs, with another £25m to come from charitable donations.'

Happy days then, sorted, going to be built, mazel tov.
 
There have been a number of objections about the fact that it will pretty much destroy the park (which is Grade II listed) that it's going to be in.

The objectors include a number of fairly prominent Jewish figures who welcome the creation of a memorial, but who think it's in completely the wrong place. The campaign to save the park is being led by Baroness Deech, the most obvious example of a prominent Jewish figure being against the location of the thing.

I suspect that there is also a fear that the result will be a bit 'Diana's fountain', in keeping with so many of these projects where the pretension of the designer through the use of symbolism is rather lost on the visitors who conclude that it's all a bit s**t...

A bit like this one?



 
I'm sorry, but with the economy circling the drain, this is no time to spunk £75 Million up the wall of a memorial. No matter how worthy the cause.
 

Yokel

LE
I wonder why it is so expensive?

Leaving aside arguments over cost and location, we do need a reminder of how dangerous identity politics is, and the consequences of seeing and treating certain groups as less human.

A warning from history.
 
Great idea wrong place, plenty of other places around central London it could go with greater impact, the loss of that park, which I use quite often will be felt by many.
 
About time to, and I have no idea why Westminster council rejected this?


You can't have the left trying to whitewash history and I am happy the the government of today have seen fit to open this. Every schoolchild throughout the land should be taught about what the Nazi's did to millions of innocent men, women and children - how they systematically tortured/murdered/enslaved/experimented on people that they thought of as less than animals.

Well done to the politicians that got this through, finally the government are doing something correct. (This an getting Brexit done).
As a person of the 'Left' persuasion I will firmly agree with you, in fact 'To Kill a Mockingbird' should be replaced with 'Schindlers List' in school Curriculum. ALL young people should watch this...indeed ALL people full stop should see it and discuss it's implications. That period in history needs to be held up as something to avoid at all costs. Especially as it was not only Jews but Russians, Poles, Gypsies, so called 'Asocial misfits' Recidevists, Gays and anyone Opposing the Govt. Mainly to begin with, control of media and then appealing to the basest instincts of Nationalistic theory...As for Brexit I'll reserve judgement just yet, I voted to Remain but I lost the argument and hope that it will work out in the end as there is absolutely no point in rejoining. Any deal would be far below what we already had so, once out, stay out. We will survive we've done it before over the centuries and will do it again I'm sure...
 
As a person of the 'Left' persuasion I will firmly agree with you, in fact 'To Kill a Mockingbird' should be replaced with 'Schindlers List' in school Curriculum. ALL young people should watch this...indeed ALL people full stop should see it and discuss it's implications. That period in history needs to be held up as something to avoid at all costs. Especially as it was not only Jews but Russians, Poles, Gypsies, so called 'Asocial misfits' Recidevists, Gays and anyone Opposing the Govt. Mainly to begin with, control of media and then appealing to the basest instincts of Nationalistic theory...As for Brexit I'll reserve judgement just yet, I voted to Remain but I lost the argument and hope that it will work out in the end as there is absolutely no point in rejoining. Any deal would be far below what we already had so, once out, stay out. We will survive we've done it before over the centuries and will do it again I'm sure...
A lefty with common sense and a brain, that's unusual in this forum. Glad to see you have not succumbed to the same level of mentality as Bravo Bravo. Lot's of POW's also ended up in these camps as did disabled people and anyone else the Nazi's wanted to put there. They burned their books, stole their wealth and tried to erase their history. Now I am not saying all lefty's are like this - however these people that throw statues in harbours, that have selective views on slavery, think that the west is bad and the communism is good, these people tend to be lefty's or people with mental issues and are easily led. Glad to see that's not you though.

I agree, every single person should know about what the Nazi's did, it should be a subject that is hammered into all school children. There's actually a Holocaust Memorial Day on 27th Jan - but most people don't know it exists, and no teacher will probably tell any kids about it, they are too busy telling white boys they are bad and should be effeminate.

Glad the government is starting to take back control of the country though - things like this memorial are a start, then they can start on the education system next, curb the illegal migrants and not give them benefits or anything. Make Britain great again and make people proud to be British and proud of democracy.
 
@mrdude - I agree with what you say, but by referring to 'the Nazis' we are putting that first bit of whitewash on history. The Holocaust was Nazi policy but implemented by ordinary Germans. Lest we forget.
 
@mrdude - I agree with what you say, but by referring to 'the Nazis' we are putting that first bit of whitewash on history. The Holocaust was Nazi policy but implemented by ordinary Germans. Lest we forget.
Not all the Germans were bad, some just didn't say anything through fear. Also a lot of Germans didn't know what was going on, most never lived near these concentration camps. Probably if an average civvy German objected to the Nazis- they wouldn't have a job, food, and they would have been evicted.

Mind you if Covid passports become a thing - we will end up with a 2 tier standard of life in this country, any sensible MP should never consider making this a thing or they will become much like the Labour party, which are now unelectable.
 
Not all the Germans were bad, some just didn't say anything through fear AGREE. Also a lot of Germans didn't know what was going on DISAGREE, most never lived near these concentration camps. Probably if an average civvy German objected to the Nazis- they wouldn't have a job, food, and they would have been evicted.

Mind you if Covid passports become a thing - we will end up with a 2 tier standard of life in this country, any sensible MP should never consider making this a thing or they will become much like the Labour party, which are now unelectable.
It wasn't just the concentration camps though. I was thinking if the 'ordinary Germans' in the Reserve Police battalions who followed the Wehrmacht into Poland and in due course Ukraine and Russia. Their work was shooting men women and children - including babies. They were mainly not Nazis and had the chance of opting out, not just on a day to day basis but some who were unhappy with this work were given the opportunity to be sent back to Germany on the proviso that they became full time policemen. Also, those reservist policemen wrote home and took photos. One battalion had its WAGs come and stay. It is all documented. I think Germans today are probably more honest about their past that they were in the period from late 1945 when amnesia became widespread.

I don't want to divert from the subject of the thread, but I feel quite strongly that if we perpetuate this short hand (Nazis for Germans) we are letting Germans (of that era) off the hook.
 
For those who wish to be better informed as to the individuals involved in the make up conduct of the Police Reserve Bns in Poland this book is worth reading, it is not an easy read by any means.

1627630141887.jpeg

“A remarkable—and singularly chilling—glimpse of human behavior. . .This meticulously researched book...represents a major contribution to the literature of the Holocaust."—Newsweek

Christopher R. Browning’s shocking account of how a unit of average middle-aged Germans became the cold-blooded murderers of tens of thousands of Jews—now with a new afterword and additional photographs.


Ordinary Men is the true story of Reserve Police Battalion 101 of the German Order Police, which was responsible for mass shootings as well as round-ups of Jewish people for deportation to Nazi death camps in Poland in 1942. Browning argues that most of the men of RPB 101 were not fanatical Nazis but, rather, ordinary middle-aged, working-class men who committed these atrocities out of a mixture of motives, including the group dynamics of conformity, deference to authority, role adaptation, and the altering of moral norms to justify their actions. Very quickly three groups emerged within the battalion: a core of eager killers, a plurality who carried out their duties reliably but without initiative, and a small minority who evaded participation in the acts of killing without diminishing the murderous efficiency of the battalion whatsoever.

While this book discusses a specific Reserve Unit during WWII, the general argument Browning makes is that most people succumb to the pressures of a group setting and commit actions they would never do of their own volition.

Ordinary Men is a powerful, chilling, and important work with themes and arguments that continue to resonate today.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
A bit like this one?




I didn't realise this rather odd mound was actually a memorial. Who is it about?
 

Latest Threads

Top