Holland, the hand of Russia?

#21
I say, we should show understanding and consideration for the hurt feelings of the nationalist turks and their president. As we are obviously all Nazi's, we should not insult them with our foul presence in their holliday resorts, or "Döner-shops" or vegetable-sales. I hope this way we can deescalate the situation.
Back off, the 1st time the Germans got involved, things ended badly.

And an issue is the closeness of Germany to Russia. So many EU countries have been infiltrated by Russian gas...

...:)

;)
 
#25
The problem is that Putin supports the far right (and far left) parties eg money to FN etc. You don't see allegations of hacking on those parties. The far right parties are more likely to have an anti-muslim stance. So Erdogan's stance isn't in line with Putin's other than the disruption in Europe.

I believe he's (Putin) playing along for now giving Erdogan the rope he needs. Ready for the long drop and short stop when the rug is pulled away

We need a new Article in NATO allowing for a country to be removed on consensus. That would dampen some of his rhetoric.
I doubt it would, he would use it to manufacture grievance à la SNP
 
#26
I doubt it would, he would use it to manufacture grievance à la SNP
Who knows, personally I think it would dampen down the rhetoric. After all, what grievance could he have if Turkey wasn't mentioned?

It needs doing anyway. There will be a time when a country needs to be removed
 
#27
Russia will be gaming left and right to exert any influence they can to diminish the ability of the EU to project a united front. Financing, back-up, info-wars, cyber... do we have cloggie arrsers?
I live in the netherlands, one thing that struck me about the results this morning is the the PVV (the hair man's party) have gained a seat or two, they now have 20 seats in parliament vs Rutte's winning 33 seats.

PVV did well for themsleves this time and it is not the staggering defeat of facism that the british press are reporting. It will, as usual, be a coalition government but we don;t know will pair up yet, PVV won't be in it though, all the main parties have already said they wont team up with them.

In amsterdam, Groen LInks (green left) took the majority from labour.

ABout the only interesting thing that has happened is that the Labour party (same as the uk labour party) had their arses handed to them and have almost vanished). That is the real story in european politics, the centre left parties are seriously out of favour for one reason or another.

It was a big turnout, about 78%, everything seems above board, nobody is whining about foul play, everything is normal here.

Also, regarding turks rioting all over the country, it's not true, there was one minor violent protest in Rotterdam, thats it, the Amsterdam protest had about a dozen attendees and was ignored by everyone.

Rutte telling Turkey to F-off seems to have done the trick
 
#28
I think I gobbed off on here last night, apologies for that.

Its good to hear from someone there. I have a couple of mates who are Swedish and they went back last year to see their mum (brothers) and I asked about all the rapes and immigrant gangs, they didn't see anything and their mum was not seeing anything.

Lived at Linkoping where I met them.
 
#29
I live in the netherlands, one thing that struck me about the results this morning is the the PVV (the hair man's party) have gained a seat or two, they now have 20 seats in parliament vs Rutte's winning 33 seats.

PVV did well for themsleves this time and it is not the staggering defeat of facism that the british press are reporting. It will, as usual, be a coalition government but we don;t know will pair up yet, PVV won't be in it though, all the main parties have already said they wont team up with them.

In amsterdam, Groen LInks (green left) took the majority from labour.

ABout the only interesting thing that has happened is that the Labour party (same as the uk labour party) had their arses handed to them and have almost vanished). That is the real story in european politics, the centre left parties are seriously out of favour for one reason or another.

It was a big turnout, about 78%, everything seems above board, nobody is whining about foul play, everything is normal here.

Also, regarding turks rioting all over the country, it's not true, there was one minor violent protest in Rotterdam, thats it, the Amsterdam protest had about a dozen attendees and was ignored by everyone.

Rutte telling Turkey to F-off seems to have done the trick
Thanks for that.
 
#31
This is a pretty good article. Personally I believe Putin's plotting against the West is real, though whether it will have decisive results is another question.

The Road to a Free Europe Goes Through Moscow
This passage seems pretty disingenuous,

"Like the titular leader of the free world, a fair number of European political elites, stuck in a mindset that still considers Russia a potential partner, bend over backwards to explain Russian conduct as the predictable and not entirely unjustified reaction of an “encircled” power whose “interests” must be “respected.”"

No bending over backwards required. This chap seems to have a hard on for a hot military confrontation with Russia
 
#32
Back off, the 1st time the Germans got involved, things ended badly.

And an issue is the closeness of Germany to Russia. So many EU countries have been infiltrated by Russian gas...

...:)

;)
Many nationals of current EU countries have also been exposed to German gases.
 
#33
When they talk about Trumps 19th century world view, so too Is Putin's, only we forget that the US didn't really have a 19th century view, The Brits, The French and The Germans did and Russia's was writ large in that.
It's only a few steps to return of Tzars. Nor did their demise mean that Russian views changed.
 

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