Holland, the hand of Russia?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Kromeriz, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Ostensibly, the disruption in relations between Holland and Turkey, two NATO member states, one a member of the EU the other, a shunned bride seem like a spat. However, who even suggested to the Turks that fermenting unrest and protests in another country in support of a sitting president was going to go down well; what none EU / NATO States have witnessed these protests?

    However, it does play into the hands of Russia by creating more uncertainty in the cohesion of the EU with a potential Nexit leader being elected and also causes disruption in NATO relations. Is the hand of Russia involved in this?
  2. My money is on Ginger Whinger Sturgeon
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  3. Erdoğan was in Moscow late last week. Fancy that!

    Also the last few days have been a good time for Turkey to bury bad news. The Venice Commission (Council of Europe) just released a report on the proposed constitutional changes in Turkey which is very, very critical of the authoritarian trajectory. On Monday the UN High Commissioner for refugees published a report on alleged human rights abuses, such as torture and extra-judicial killings in SE Turkey. Both reports - potentially very damning of Erdoğan, have barely rated a mention in the media...

    ...but I agree, Russia must be having a good old laugh at the moment, if not directly helping stoke the fires. But Turkey will wake up and realise it's a Billy No-Mates. Turkey and Russia have had about 10 wars in the last 250 years and Turkey, albeit under the heavy hand of Ottoman despotic dictators, has lost every one of them.
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  4. Thanks for that.
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  6. If this is not smoke and mirrors from your article, then Ankara are playing a dangerous game now...

    'Even Ankara’s current crisis with the Netherlands demonstrates the limits of Turkey’s reliance on Russia. Maintaining that international law is on its side, Ankara had hoped for Moscow’s backing in this crisis. It was disappointed, though, when Putin’s spokesman called on both sides to show restraint.'
  7. Russia aka Putin is undoubtedly laughing but I doubt his particular hand is in this instance. How the 'hair man' in Holland gets his funding should be looked at but there doesn't seem to be the reports of alleged hacking as there has been in France.

    He may have told Putin his plans for rallies but that's not really noteworthy imho. France and Germany have the Erdogan rallies I believe.

    Erdogan has wanted to be Sultan for ages and see's Turkey as the new power with influence in the region. How rebels not attending Astana plays out I don't know, but they were his (primary) reason for being there. He's playing a dangerous game with Putin who will undoubtedly drop him when the time is right. What happens then remains to be seen.

    Erdogan will get the constitutional changes he wants. He will continue to stoke the fires and the Turkish economy will decline. He will conitinue to upset the EU and NATO which plays into Putin's hand but I don't believe this was Russia's direct involvement. Just a nice backstory
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  8. What shocked me was the strength of the demonstrations and then the appalling language of Erdogan. He doesn't have a big enough stick to wave. There was a big boy stood behind and encouraging him...

    On the other hand the link from @Crash and the calls for an Islamic revolution may mean you are both correct - here he does have influence with the refugees he is holding for the EU and with Turkish nationals resident in Europe.
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  9. The problem is that Putin supports the far right (and far left) parties eg money to FN etc. You don't see allegations of hacking on those parties. The far right parties are more likely to have an anti-muslim stance. So Erdogan's stance isn't in line with Putin's other than the disruption in Europe.

    I believe he's (Putin) playing along for now giving Erdogan the rope he needs. Ready for the long drop and short stop when the rug is pulled away

    We need a new Article in NATO allowing for a country to be removed on consensus. That would dampen some of his rhetoric.
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  10. I would give you a LIKE, but...
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  11. No crown princes left though...
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  12. OP - I think you'll find thats the hand of Germany:nod:

  13. Russia will be gaming left and right to exert any influence they can to diminish the ability of the EU to project a united front. Financing, back-up, info-wars, cyber... do we have cloggie arrsers?
  14. Lots of talk about Putin destroying the EU, when frankly MS are doing more than enough from within IMO...