Holiday Entitlement - Employer issues

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Belt_Twit, Feb 18, 2008.

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  1. I've had an issue raised with my employer (civvy employer) that is as follows.

    I have three holidays booked for the first 6 months of this year, totalling 18 days off (with 5 remaining from my entitlement). The latest holiday, which brings my holiday to 18 days, has now been denied as "I don't think 5 days will be enough for you for the rest of the year."

    There is no other reason I couldn't go other than them saying they don't think I'll have enough holiday left for the rest of the year. Is that legal? I have always taken my holidays in the first part of the year due to it being 1) cheaper and 2) Just always have done. There is nothing that specifies rights to take holiday in my contract other than stating my annual entitlement.

    Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place.
  2. If you are entitled to it (as per your employment terms as specified in your contract), and there is no legitimate reason for denying you the holidays (save for any clause within the same contract that would entitle him to do so), then he cannot prevent you from taking your leave solely on the grounds that it is his belief that it is too much.

    You are either entitled to it or you are not.

    Where would this end if it were not the case - he would be free to say that he did not think you had worked "well" enough during your 8 hour shift and so was only going to pay you for 5 hours.

    His opinion is only valid insofar as your contract of employment allows it to be.
  3. As far as my employment contract goes, it says I am entitled to 23 days and this may be subject to denial if undermanned.

    As I'd be the only person off during this period, that's not the case. I've asked my manager to e-mail me the denial, with reason, so I have a written document stating they are turning me down as they don't think 5 days is enough for the rest of the year.
  4. They're not planning to sack you are they? It would get messy for them to claim back the pro-rata leave that you wouldn't then have been entitled to.

    A lot of firms have clauses like that for people in their first year of service, though it's unusual for subsequent years.
  5. They're not planning on sacking me as far as I know, considering they've said I am doing well (first year there). Contract shows no clauses saying they can deny me holiday unless there are not enough people in etc. etc.

    Last job I left just deducted any extra holiday I'd taken from my final paycheque which is fine by me.
  6. There's your answer. They're probably worried that you may take your entire annual leave entitlement in the first couple of months, then do a runner - at which point, you'd owe them money and they'd have difficulty getting it back.
  7. Why'd they have trouble getting it back? Last company just deducted the money from my paycheque without my consultation (as I'd expect) and there were no dramas. The other holiday I have booked is in May, so it's not as though by the end this month I will only have 5 days left, it'd be about half a year in.

    Edit: And whilst they might be worried that I'd do a runner, can they legally say no on the grounds they think I wouldn't have enough holiday left for the rest of the year?
  8. A lot of civvy firms now ask their employess to save a few days holiday entitlement so that they can be added to the Xmas, Boxing day and New Years Day bank holidays to allow the whole firm to close down for a long Xmas break. It's not at all unusual and in a small firm it's not always possible to find work for an individual when everyone else is on holiday. Did you bother to ask for an explanation of what they meant by "You won't have enough holidays left"?

    edited to add. It doesn't always have to be down in black and white as even employment tribunals recognise Custom and Practice in a lot of cases.
  9. Let's take an extreme example...

    Bod joins firm on Jan 1. Pay is up to date on Jan 31.

    Bod takes leave for 4 weeks starting Feb 10, but decides not to come back.

    Firm realises this a week after Bod has been paid for February.

    Firm has lost out by 14ish days pay and has little chance of getting it back.

    That's the theory.
  10. Thing is, my holiday is spread over 6 months (and is only 18 days) - therefore I'll have earned 11.5 days of it already. The other 6.5 could easily be deducted from a pay run, considering my notice period is 1 month.
  11. DC,

    Have a shufty at the following link from the citizens advice bureau - may give you some answers:


  12. Hi BT, basically your manager is a cnut and a bully, he has no right whatsoever to force his opinions on you regarding 'your' leave.

    The law ,and your contract ,states that you are entitled to your accrued leave, unless there is a legitimate business reason where it would effect the firms trade if you went at a certain time e.g. if you made toys, fireworks, easter eggs, etc or other seasonal things and wanted leave during your firms 'busy time', if you haven't accrued enough leave, you should be able to take unpaid leave.

    Speak to HR or your workplace Union rep, if you haven't got HR or a union rep, join a union, no one needs to know and you can join as an individual (tip: you have no unfair dimissal rights until 1 years service accept on discrimination grounds)..GMB is a good all round one that caters for many professions. Bottom line is that many managers do not know employment law and many workers know even less about there rights as an employee...a lot has been said about unions, both good and bad, but if it wasn't for them, you boss would have you doffing your cap and thanking him for letting you keep your job every friggen would he feel if his boss told him when he could take his leave?

    I manage 28 staff. One has used or booked all his leave for this year already(our leave runs from Jan 1 to Dec 31) We only pay SSP so he knows that if he goes sick for less than 4 days he won't get jack, if he takes a day off he won't get jack, foolhardy to book it all so early maybe, but so what?'s his leave to do as he pleases.

    Also if you go sick on leave, provided you get a certificate covering all the days, you can claim that back from you leave entitlement.

    I spent months up in Manchester at the GMB National college being taught this shite and many other things to do with employment law..your boss sounds like he thinks that he is doing you a favour but he is just giving it the big 'un to show that he's in charge.

    'worksmart' is a good website to get info from regarding all aspects of being an employee.

    Maybe you haven't told the full story but from what you say, he is is acting on his own rules which he has no right to do...and as for his opinions, we all know the saying about those.

    Hope that this info helps.
  13. Just realised I posted duel accounts - sorry about that but won't seem to let me log on my home one from work =)

    Thanks for the help by the way, will have a read through of the links posted.