Holding a Rifle

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by Bunyip, Sep 25, 2010.

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  1. I came across a claim recently on another forum that soldiers today are trained to turn face onto their target and fire their rifles square on, rather than turning edge on. This is (supposedly) to ensure that that they receive maximum protection from their body armour. However, it appears counter-intuitive as the traditional "edge on" stance is intended to minimise their exposure as well as allows them to brace their body better to absorb the recoil. My question is, is this form of training now undertaken in the British Army or is the person who posted it talking bollocks?
  2. davidflies

    davidflies War Hero Book Reviewer

    I think you will find it impossible to hold and aim any long weapon with chest square to the target - your arms just don't work that way and how do you get your head in place to aim? Not a possibility unless there is a new standard infantryman (with asymmetric arms and an extendable stalk eye) now being deployed.
  3. There is a CQB shoot that involves standing face on to the target (from 20m to 5m), feet and chest directly ahead.
    That is the only time I've had experience of being taught facing directly from the standing position, and there was mention of the fact this is to maximise protection from your CBA.

    At those close ranges, I can maybe understand such methods. But personally, I can only echo what davidflies has said, it isn't a comfortable position and goes agaisnt the grain of the core marksmanship principles, and to be honest if I was in that kind of CQB situation with a rifle, I would use the 'standard' standing position as not only would it be more accurate, quicker and comfortable, but movement would be easier also.

    That's just my preference though, maybe there are those out there that through practice or through having 'asymmetric arms and an extendable stalk eye' can pull this technique off.
  4. Rifle Lesson 8 "Firing from combat positions, Use of cover and close quarter battle" teaches exactly that, since it's a restricted document I wont quote directly from it, page 1-116 explains all.
  5. Hello Bunyip, could you provide a link to this other forum by any chance. Ya never know it could be "educational" or otherwise have some merit that people here could appriciate. Just a thought.
  6. This type of position is intended for quick aimed shots, double tapping at close quarters, either static and particuliarly whilst moving. The septics use it a lot with their lighter M4 Carbines. It is a technique that has some merit. I tried to introduce this techique a couple of years ago.

    It was shot down in the halls of Warminster as 'SF drill's' as I said at the time there is no such skill as 'SF drills' when it come's to shooting. A soldier especially an Infantry must have all the techiques in his locker to use. Think straight, shoot straight, think fast, shoot fast and accurate.

    Glad to see its being taught at last.
  7. as taught to me at brecon very recently for compound clearance/ cqb, I can see the logic in it
  8. It only make any sense in relation to the protection provided by body armour front plates. Fitting the left hand side plate would achieve a similar effect and allow a conventional stance. Of course there would be the 1.5 lb weight penalty....
  9. A useful CQB technique, but not one to which the IW is brilliantly suited...
  10. It can't be that restricted - they let me read it!

    Not only did I get my own copy, I got blood poisoning from the rusty staple...


    I wasn't allowed to fondle the rifling in basic, some fellah had gone and covered it in green and black plastic before it was issued.

    My p0rn star tache was bristling with umbrage - so much so the Armoury thought I'd stolen a piece of cleaning kit!
  11. Stonker

    Stonker On ROPs

    I've been out for a bit, but it doesn't look to me like there's any ISAF Army in AFG, whose rifles are designed to work well with their body armour.(Just like 2 decades ago, when they issued us with INIBA - but made no adjustment to the length of the butts on our SA80s . . .

    Not having seen this technique (must hunt down the vids), I can't comment on SA80 in particular, but I just wonder if you can design an assault weapon that can be fired with equal ease from a conventional position; in this manner, and; both with and without body armour.
  12. At least this one is from the shoulder.
    It must be a better than what was taught many moons ago and we called the "Shotgun" positon.

    Standing face on to the target but with the butt in the stomach.

    Got taught that with an SLR, soon find out if your stomach muscles work or not.

    Never did know if it was a good idea/load of crap or not.
  13. Stonker

    Stonker On ROPs

    That position was a CQB stance from the SMG pamphlet in the mid-70s (I practiced it myself a very long time ago, but do not know if it went out of fashion with time).

    Like any 'rough alignment' aiming technique it was only intended for use at very close range (in a room or bunker, say), and only with a short weapon firing on auto.

    Doing it with a yard-long SLR on single shot?

    Methinks your SAA instructors were 'avin' a larf . . . .