Hold off on the Tar and Feathers

Should the Americans hold off on the tars and feather for the High School Cop?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 45.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 17.6%
  • I like Egg Banjos

    Votes: 51 47.2%

  • Total voters
    108
Even if it took the guy 20 seconds to shoot the cop then in this case that would have saved at least one teacher who got shot as he was closing a door.
Good job not everyone is as cynically sociopathic as you.
In your Hollywood film fantasy, I assume there is a scene where in that exact 20 seconds a teacher tried to close a door? It could have been that our brave hero rushed in got shot in the first 2 seconds by one of five armed criminals, who continued on their rampage, until the next lone hero turns up.
Would you send lone soldiers into potentially lethal situations without any intel?
 
Last edited:
Steve
Entirely correct and almost verbatim what we were told/trained regarding active shooters.
There is also a distinct possibility that the shooter had the intention of using suicide by cop as a way to finish himself off like some do.
 
In your Hollywood film fantasy, I assume there is a scene where in that exact 20 seconds a teacher tried to close a door? It could have been that our brace hero rushed in got shot in the first 2 seconds by one of five armed criminals, who continued on their rampage, until the next lone hero turns up.
Would you send lone soldiers into potentially lethal situations without any intel?
The only one here pushing made up scenarios is you. Every one else is speaking about drills designed through lessons learned from real incidents and that have been put into practice at multiple real incidents since then.
 
I'm sure most of those on here that have served in the military in mainland UK or Germany, prepared for an attack by the IRA/Islamist every time they were on guard duty as well. And not just wrote graffiti all over the guardbox whilst clock watching.
Stacker,

With 40,000 plus cops (the number when I got on) I’m sure there were a lot that weren’t “switched on” but I’ll give a quick story in that regard. A fellow Sgt and friend of mine (and great guy) was well known as being a very laid back cop (before he was a Sgt). Anyway doing plainclothes in Times Sq (btw when we did plainclothes we never wore vests, the professional pickpockets could spot them) he goes to stop some CD hustlers, they run and one pulls out a Mac-10 and starts shooting (thankfully it jams, Times Sq was packed) but the Sgt in question puts one arm over his chest (to block his heart and vital organs) and runs at the guy firing his .38 with one hand. Perp DOA...... would he had gotten lit up if that Mac-10 didn’t jam, probably, but he probably would also have hit the perp with enough rounds to stop him (hit him with all five in his revolver)
 
There is also a distinct possibility that the shooter had the intention of using suicide by cop as a way to finish himself off like some do.
The majority of active shooters kill themselves when they know/think the police are closing in. The entire scenario is normally meant to end in their death, the idea that they will be wounded and taken alive is not something they want to risk.
 
The only one here pushing made up scenarios is you. Every one else is speaking about drills designed through lessons learned from real incidents and that have been put into practice at multiple real incidents since then.
What drills? Do you think this cop is constantly practicing for some nut case shooting up a school?
 
In your Hollywood film fantasy, I assume there is a scene where in that exact 20 seconds a teacher tried to close a door? It could have been that our brace hero rushed in got shot in the first 2 seconds by one of five armed criminals, who continued on their rampage, until the next lone hero turns up.
Would you send lone soldiers into potentially lethal situations without any intel?
What 5 armed criminals?
Are you making shit up to try and defend your stupid wibbling - again?

The was a teacher who got shot because he waited one second to long to close a door because he was protecting the children.
If Mr Cop had slowed the shooter down by a second or two that teacher may have survived.
 
What drills? Do you think this cop is constantly practicing for some nut case shooting up a school?
The drills he was taught when he did his active shooter training.
 
Stacker,

With 40,000 plus cops (the number when I got on) I’m sure there were a lot that weren’t “switched on” but I’ll give a quick story in that regard. A fellow Sgt and friend of mine (and great guy) was well known as being a very laid back cop (before he was a Sgt). Anyway doing plainclothes in Times Sq (btw when we did plainclothes we never wore vests, the professional pickpockets could spot them) he goes to stop some CD hustlers, they run and one pulls out a Mac-10 and starts shooting (thankfully it jams, Times Sq was packed) but the Sgt in question puts one arm over his chest (to block his heart and vital organs) and runs at the guy firing his .38 with one hand. Perp DOA...... would he had gotten lit up if that Mac-10 didn’t jam, probably, but he probably would also have hit the perp with enough rounds to stop him (hit him with all five in his revolver)
I'm sure some people do act on instinct, however my time in the army has taught me that not everyone is quite the SAS Trooper when something out of the ordinary happens, clearly I must have been in different army to some of heroes on this thread though.
 
What 5 armed criminals?
Are you making shit up to try and defend your stupid wibbling - again?

The was a teacher who got shot because he waited one second to long to close a door because he was protecting the children.
If Mr Cop had slowed the shooter down by a second or two that teacher may have survived.

The five armed criminals you don't know about until you are in the middle of the situation, from the comfort of your armchair you NOW know there was one shooter, you wouldnt have known at the time.
Do you just rush in regardless?

Mr Cop might have been shot with the criminals last round, had his gun taken from him and been responsible for more deaths, then all the hardmen on here would be whining that he took an unnecessary risk

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
I'm sure some people do act on instinct, however my time in the army has taught me that not everyone is quite the SAS Trooper when something out of the ordinary happens, clearly I must have been in different army to some of heroes on this thread though.
Stacker,

I’m agreeing with you, not everyone is an SAS Trooper, but as I relayed the most laid back can become one with training. Again, now that it’s seems a total of four Deputies do the same thing and the City cops rushed in as soon as they arrived, I have to question that Dept’s training and/or atmosphere of complacency that was allowed to flourish.
I was a supervisor for 11 years, that School Deputy had to have one or more in the 25 years he was the school Deputy. I would like to know if anyone ever asked him “ok what’s the plan if this happens ?”
When I was a new Sgt I was made the“Hurricane Sgt” for the Precinct (before Sandy) and I had to come up with a plan, in writing, of steps we needed to take if there was a Category 5 Hurricane.
 
Stacker,

I’m agreeing with you, not everyone is an SAS Trooper, but as I relayed the most laid back can become one with training. Again, now that it’s seems a total of four Deputies do the same thing and the City cops rushed in as soon as they arrived, I have to question that Dept’s training and/or atmosphere of complacency that was allowed to flourish.
I was a supervisor for 11 years, that School Deputy had to have one or more in the 25 years he was the school Deputy. I would like to know if anyone ever asked him “ok what’s the plan if this happens ?”
When I was a new Sgt I was made the“Hurricane Sgt” for the Precinct (before Sandy) and I had to come up with a plan, in writing, of steps we needed to take if there was a Category 5 Hurricane.
And if you never had a hurricane, its likely that within 10 years everyone would have forgotten about it.

If 4 other blokes turned up and stood by either all 5 of them were cowards or perhaps not everyone is uber cool in a crisis.
 
The five armed criminals you don't know about until you are in the middle of the situation, from the comfort of your armchair you NOW know there was one shooter, you wouldnt have known at the time.
Do you just rush in regardless?

Mr Cop might have been shot with the criminals last round, had his gun taken from him and been responsible for more deaths, then all the hardmen on here would be whining that he took an unnecessary risk

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Becausing waiting outside has been proven to cause more casualties.
Proven.
In the real world, by people who really have to deal with it and not just chops off behind a keyboard.
Good job it isn't up to you.
 
The majority of active shooters kill themselves when they know/think the police are closing in. The entire scenario is normally meant to end in their death, the idea that they will be wounded and taken alive is not something they want to risk.
That’s my point, if the deputy had advanced and engaged, the shooter would have focused his attention on him knowing the end is coming and maybe sped up his demise.
 
L
What drills? Do you think this cop is constantly practicing for some nut case shooting up a school?
You’d think so as that would seem to be a fairly obvious reason to be there

Remember this is a country where schools do active shooter drills
 
You’d think so as that would seem to be a fairly obvious reason to be there

Remember this is a country where schools do active shooter drills
Does every school in the state conduct regular standard drills? Or is it actually some do, some dont and there is no standard?

Theres a fairly obvious reason why soldiers stag on the front gate with live ammo in the UK, doesnt mean they super soldier.
 
Becausing waiting outside has been proven to cause more casualties.
Proven.
In the real world, by people who really have to deal with it and not just chops off behind a keyboard.
Good job it isn't up to you.
Ah I understand now, every cop in the states is a highly trained steely eyed killer.

Do you throw soldiers under the bus when they make a mistake as well?
 
Remember this is a country where schools do active shooter drills
To be fair, UK schools (or at least the two state schools I've worked in recently) do as well. They aren't called 'active shooter drills' (my current school calls it a 'lockdown') but the idea is practicing what happens if some nutters walk in and start shooting kids. Lights off, doors locked, hiding out of sight/under tables etc.

In the same way that any school trip should now include a 'what if lunatics attack us' bit in the risk assessment, it's a worst-case scenario plan. The cynical out there may well think that it would make close to zero difference if a terrorist attack actually happened and it's just the school covering their arse by having a policy they can point to if it all goes wrong.
 
To be fair, UK schools (or at least the two state schools I've worked in recently) do as well. They aren't called 'active shooter drills' (my current school calls it a 'lockdown') but the idea is practicing what happens if some nutters walk in and start shooting kids. Lights off, doors locked, hiding out of sight/under tables etc.

In the same way that any school trip should now include a 'what if lunatics attack us' bit in the risk assessment, it's a worst-case scenario plan. The cynical out there may well think that it would make close to zero difference if a terrorist attack actually happened and it's just the school covering their arse by having a policy they can point to if it all goes wrong.
Canadian schools carry out what they call disaster drills which seem to never stop evolving. Originally used as nuke survival drills, they now encompass fire, tornado, and yes, intruder/shooter drills. Nothing wrong with teaching kids how to survive in the place they should be safe.
 

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