Hold off on the Tar and Feathers

Should the Americans hold off on the tars and feather for the High School Cop?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 45.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 17.6%
  • I like Egg Banjos

    Votes: 51 47.2%

  • Total voters
    108
#81
It seems to me that the thing to do is attack the attacker. He will change his focus from his victim/s to face the new threat. In his mind he may now see himself as the victim and may adopt a victim attitude, possibly making him ineffective.

Doing nothing or attempting to conciliate/appease, leaves him in a position of power, able to control the situation.

I can say this with authority as I have absolutely no experience, training or expertise.
Equally the criminal(s) can put several rounds into the body of the lightly armed cop, carry on on his (their) spree and the next plod on the scene can then also go in alone and do the same thing.
The movies do not reflect real life.
 
#82
Equally the criminal(s) can put several rounds into the body of the lightly armed cop, carry on on his (their) spree and the next plod on the scene can then also go in alone and do the same thing.
The movies do not reflect real life.
I think some people are saying that this is exactly the scenario he should have undertaken. Do something, even if that something will result in the pointless waste of your life. It's all about the kids.

I recall a lecture at Ashford PTC (Police Training College) where a very senior rank told us, words to the effect, never underestimate your importance as a Police Officer. In certain circumstances one of you, just a single one could easily have the worlds spotlight shining on you because of an action or an inaction.
 
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#83
Equally the criminal(s) can put several rounds into the body of the lightly armed cop, carry on on his (their) spree and the next plod on the scene can then also go in alone and do the same thing.
The movies do not reflect real life.
It's a possibility, but it hasn't happened in any of the active shooter incidents that US police have responded too in the last 20 years or so.
 
#84
It's a possibility, but it hasn't happened in any of the active shooter incidents that US police have responded too in the last 20 years or so.
I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it easy to say what should have happened when people are not the lone lightly armed (Possibly minimum trained in the scenario) bloke listening to some semi automatic firepower from an unseen assailant.
 
#85
I think some people are saying that this is exactly the scenario he should have undertaken. Do something, even if that something will result in the pointless waste of your life. It's all about the kids.

I recall a lecture at Ashford PTC (Police Training College) where a a very senior rank told us, words to the effect. never underestimate your importance as a Police Officer. In certain circumstances one of you, just a single one could easily have the worlds spotlight shining on you because of an action or an inaction.
My bold, we (as soldiers) are taught not to become casualties ourselves. He would have been no good if he was killed trying to be a hero.
 
#86
Once again arsse delivers, this sort of question is why I come here. As a lifelong civvy may I say I wouldn't have just stood there. I'd have shat myself.
This is a tough one because I do believe we should not rush to judgement and what good is a Glock against an Armalite? But if it's well known that there will be some opposition then that'll be off putting to shooters surely? You can't kill a load of kids if you get a 9mm in the back whilst your doing so. But I also like egg banjos.

(Also my spell check turns civvy into divvy...)
 
#87
In NY, even before Columbine, we were a more, well we called it “piling on the rabbit”. We all jump the guy, we all go in etc. (even though according to the Patrol Guide you were to ‘isolate and contain’)
After Columbine it was stressed, with training and just what made sense.......go in go in, present the shooter with multiple targets (that can shoot back) knock him off his game. After Mumbai and before we had long guns (M4s)assigned to units that were on Patrol, we only had ESU with long guns. For years guys (including me) brought their own stuff to work and threw it in the trunk, just in case.
Now that it seems that a total of four deputies from the same Dept didn’t go in I have to say it’s either a case of lack of training for active shooters or a sense of complacency or both. Believe it or not my partner and I would routinely talk in the car about different scenarios, it made us better cops. As a Sgt I would go over scenarios at roll call and when I was in plainclothes would have a response plan that I made sure my guys knew (I figured that in anything major the cellphone towers would go down because of volume).

As the School Resource Officer that Deputy should of been planning for that day everyday he was there.
 
#88
As the School Resource Officer that Deputy should of been planning for that day everyday he was there.
You live in a fucked up country if that's what he should have been planning for everyday. He day probably consisted stopping kids from causing minor trouble.
 
#89
Even with hindsight there are far too many variables here for us to know why things went the way they did.
We don't know if the chap liked the kids, or not, and visa versa.
We do now know the shooter knew the school layout and proceedures as well, if not better than the guard.
I really feel for this chap, brave or not, he has to live with his actions abd may have a liftime of people pointing out to him how unarmed teachers have stood in frobt if their pupils to protect them while he did nothing to help.
As others have said, this one man and his action or inaction will be seized upon by various campaigners.
 
#90
You live in a fucked up country if that's what he should have been planning for everyday. He day probably consisted stopping kids from causing minor trouble.
Stacker,

Unfortunately we live in a day in age where, never mind a mentally unstable adult/kid coming to the school, we have to be aware that the type who like to call out Ali’s Snackbar would like to have a go at a school too(Beslan). So his MAJOR job should of been preparing for the worst.
 
#91
My bold, we (as soldiers) are taught not to become casualties ourselves. He would have been no good if he was killed trying to be a hero.
What's the old saying.... "A thinking Rifleman is a live Rifleman."

Soldiers don't join up to die. It's an occasional hazard of the job that can present itself but soldiers like most other people like breathing. You are only here once as they say. Enjoy it.

Police officers will have the same instincts and I don't see why they shouldn't have them.

I won't comment on the actions of this police officer. I wasn't there and I don't see how anybody else who wasn't there can comment. That includes President Trump!

This was a terrible tragedy and it is well past time that America did something to try and stop it happening again. Arming teachers in the classroom isn't the answer though.
 
#92
Stacker,

Sorry I must add that you are correct, most of ,if not all of his day was probably spent dealing with, well, kids being kids (minor theft, vandalism, bullies etc) but you need to have the worst case scenario in your mind, you can’t become complacent. People hire Fire Prevention Officers, they think of the worst case scenario, what if there is a fire here ?....... how do people get out, are the walls solid concrete or cinder block, is the room safe to shelter in place etc........and then advise and train people how to deal with it or make things fireproof without actually spraying fire retardant on every wall, floor and ceiling in the entire building.
 
#93
Question for our cousins in law enforcement over the pond. Do you have many Brits entering your profession?
I know of two Brits (one female) and one German.
 
#95
My bold, we (as soldiers) are taught not to become casualties ourselves. He would have been no good if he was killed trying to be a hero.
Unless of course making the killer take time out of his busy schedule of murdering children to deal with you means that a lot more of them have time to get away.
You know, protect the innocent sort of thing.
 
#96
Unless of course making the killer take time out of his busy schedule of murdering children to deal with you means that a lot more of them have time to get away.
You know, protect the innocent sort of thing.
If only life was perfect eh. Like some sort of Hollywood film.
 
#97
One further thing I was taught as a young cop...... sometimes you have to be loud and bold........if you are walking in yourself, the bad guy doesn’t know that !!
“Hey Tom, if you see the guy take a head shot” sometimes talking out loud is good.

We were searching for a burglar on the roof of a building, we finally surmised he was lying face down on top of the elevator gear housing which had only a small rickety ladder to get up there. An old timer sent me down to the car to get a road flare, which were long and red colored, sort of like a stick of dynamite.
Well when I came back, he said very loudly, “Louie, I guess we have to flush him out, we’ll start with the elevator housing, throw that stick of dynamite up there and then duck”
So I threw it up, as it was in the air on it’s way, the perp, was coming the opposite way off the roof and into a pair of cuffs.
He later told us we were “the craziest cops he ever met and didn’t know NYPD had sticks of dynamite issued”
 
#98
If only life was perfect eh. Like some sort of Hollywood film.
Even if it took the guy 20 seconds to shoot the cop then in this case that would have saved at least one teacher who got shot as he was closing a door.
Good job not everyone is as cynically sociopathic as you.
 
#99
Stacker,

Unfortunately we live in a day in age where, never mind a mentally unstable adult/kid coming to the school, we have to be aware that the type who like to call out Ali’s Snackbar would like to have a go at a school too(Beslan). So his MAJOR job should of been preparing for the worst.
Stacker,

Sorry I must add that you are correct, most of ,if not all of his day was probably spent dealing with, well, kids being kids (minor theft, vandalism, bullies etc) but you need to have the worst case scenario in your mind, you can’t become complacent. People hire Fire Prevention Officers, they think of the worst case scenario, what if there is a fire here ?....... how do people get out, are the walls solid concrete or cinder block, is the room safe to shelter in place etc........and then advise and train people how to deal with it or make things fireproof without actually spraying fire retardant on every wall, floor and ceiling in the entire building.
I'm sure most of those on here that have served in the military in mainland UK or Germany, prepared for an attack by the IRA/Islamist every time they were on guard duty as well. And not just wrote graffiti all over the guardbox whilst clock watching.
 
Even if it took the guy 20 seconds to shoot the cop then in this case that would have saved at least one teacher who got shot as he was closing a door.
Good job not everyone is as cynically sociopathic as you.
Steve
Entirely correct and almost verbatim what we were told/trained regarding active shooters.
 

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