Hold off on the Tar and Feathers

Should the Americans hold off on the tars and feather for the High School Cop?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 45.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 17.6%
  • I like Egg Banjos

    Votes: 51 47.2%

  • Total voters
    108
I've said before that judgement here should be after a full enquiry.

The fact? that four officers from the same department all stayed outside suggests a departmental policy of hold and contain, like Chief Constable's orders. In my suspicious mind, it also fits in with the head sheds condemnation of his colleague before the facts were fully known. Maybe something to hide. Don't get me wrong, the officer would suffer terribly from his colleagues if they thought he was a "coward" but this would be in house so to speak. Only after the enquiry, would public humiliation ensue.

Just sayin'.
The moment this shooting entered the history books, Deputy Peterson’s fate was sealed in public opinion, right or wrong. He was there and did not enter the building, that is a fact that cannot be changed. It is a moot point now why he acted the way he did, he has been found guilty of cowardice in the eyes of the public of letting children die like lambs at the slaughter. No matter what comes out, he has been branded as a coward and no matter what our opinions are on ARRSE, he is now a pariah and will suffer as such.
 
I have no doubt he will suffer.....a lot.

Just the speed of condemnation from his boss and the fact that four other officers may have acted in the same way gives pause for thought.

Edit due to computer being weird.
 
It is quite sickening the way this condemnation happens so fast, but with social media having such sway, it will continue for the foreseeable future.
I agree. I find it very disturbing that an individual can be dragged from obscurity, reamed, steamed and dry cleaned and thrown away in the space of a day or less. I am not speaking about this case as such but generally where people seem to be destroyed on a regular basis for things they may have said ,done or thought twenty years before. We seem to be reverting to a situation where witch hunting is a norm and beggar the FULL facts.

That is one of the reasons I withhold judgement here. I have seen Constables with good records ( one with two commendations for bravery) lose it ( the brave thing) and suffer terribly. I cannot pass judgement on this man , even if he is in error.
 
I agree. I find it very disturbing that an individual can be dragged from obscurity, reamed, steamed and dry cleaned and thrown away in the space of a day or less. I am not speaking about this case as such but generally where people seem to be destroyed on a regular basis for things they may have said ,done or thought twenty years before. We seem to be reverting to a situation where witch hunting is a norm and beggar the FULL facts.

That is one of the reasons I withhold judgement here. I have seen Constables with good records ( one with two commendations for bravery) lose it ( the brave thing) and suffer terribly. I cannot pass judgement on this man , even if he is in error.
That is why I chose to live in Canada, our police make the news for eating pot brownies while on duty and hiding in trees (in the middle of winter, no foliage,kinda pointless) not confronting mass shooters. This country so far has avoided the condemnation train so far....
 
This is from one of my LE Forum, even though he had a wife and his child there, 99.9% of the cops I worked with would have been on the same page with him:

We can now thank Sgt. Jeff Heinrich of the Coral Springs Police Department. Sgt. Heinrich was off duty and unarmed at the time of the shooting. He has close ties to the school, and was actually on campus, watering a baseball field, when the shooting started.

Sgt. Heinrich's wife is an assistant athletic director at the school. His son is a student. Sgt. Heinrich was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, and was unarmed.
When the fire alarm went off, he didn't think it was unusual. The panic that ensued changed his mind. When he heard shots, he ran toward the sound of the gunfire. On his way to the school, he found a student who had been shot in the leg. Sgt. Heinrich moved the boy to a dugout and stabilized him with supplies in the baseball team's first-aid kit.

He then ran back to the school. There, he met a Coral Springs SWAT team member who had extra gear. Sgt. Heinrich threw on an extra vest (one that wasn't rated to stop rifle fire). The SWAT officer handed over his sidearm so Sgt. Heinrich wouldn't be unarmed, and they entered the building.

Sgt. Heinrich ran into the chaos. He didn't wait outside. The officers from Coral Springs led the way. Behind them, paramedics were able to triage and treat the wounded. The SWAT medics from Coral Springs provided crucial support.
 
This is from one of my LE Forum, even though he had a wife and his child there, 99.9% of the cops I worked with would have been on the same page with him:

We can now thank Sgt. Jeff Heinrich of the Coral Springs Police Department. Sgt. Heinrich was off duty and unarmed at the time of the shooting. He has close ties to the school, and was actually on campus, watering a baseball field, when the shooting started.

Sgt. Heinrich's wife is an assistant athletic director at the school. His son is a student. Sgt. Heinrich was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, and was unarmed.
When the fire alarm went off, he didn't think it was unusual. The panic that ensued changed his mind. When he heard shots, he ran toward the sound of the gunfire. On his way to the school, he found a student who had been shot in the leg. Sgt. Heinrich moved the boy to a dugout and stabilized him with supplies in the baseball team's first-aid kit.

He then ran back to the school. There, he met a Coral Springs SWAT team member who had extra gear. Sgt. Heinrich threw on an extra vest (one that wasn't rated to stop rifle fire). The SWAT officer handed over his sidearm so Sgt. Heinrich wouldn't be unarmed, and they entered the building.

Sgt. Heinrich ran into the chaos. He didn't wait outside. The officers from Coral Springs led the way. Behind them, paramedics were able to triage and treat the wounded. The SWAT medics from Coral Springs provided crucial support.
I'd rather focus on praising guys like Sgt Heinrich who did the right thing than on finding fault with others who might or might not have done the wrong thing.
 
This is from one of my LE Forum, even though he had a wife and his child there, 99.9% of the cops I worked with would have been on the same page with him:

We can now thank Sgt. Jeff Heinrich of the Coral Springs Police Department. Sgt. Heinrich was off duty and unarmed at the time of the shooting. He has close ties to the school, and was actually on campus, watering a baseball field, when the shooting started.

Sgt. Heinrich's wife is an assistant athletic director at the school. His son is a student. Sgt. Heinrich was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, and was unarmed.
When the fire alarm went off, he didn't think it was unusual. The panic that ensued changed his mind. When he heard shots, he ran toward the sound of the gunfire. On his way to the school, he found a student who had been shot in the leg. Sgt. Heinrich moved the boy to a dugout and stabilized him with supplies in the baseball team's first-aid kit.

He then ran back to the school. There, he met a Coral Springs SWAT team member who had extra gear. Sgt. Heinrich threw on an extra vest (one that wasn't rated to stop rifle fire). The SWAT officer handed over his sidearm so Sgt. Heinrich wouldn't be unarmed, and they entered the building.

Sgt. Heinrich ran into the chaos. He didn't wait outside. The officers from Coral Springs led the way. Behind them, paramedics were able to triage and treat the wounded. The SWAT medics from Coral Springs provided crucial support.
Sounds like a good bloke, but I suspect that if someone was running round my kid's school with a gun, I'd decapitate them with a nine iron, Different context,
 
Stock up on Tar and Feathers;

School Shooting Plot Exposed: You Wont Believe who Set it Up
The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes.
The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to “improve their statistics” and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein.
It’s important to remember that this was not an arbitrary change; this was a well-planned fundamental shift in the entire dynamic of how teenagers would be treated when they engaged in criminal conduct.

At first, the police were only “excusing” misdemeanors, but soon they were also “excusing” felonies, including violent crimes like assault, armed robberies, and worse.
You can obviously see how this would cause problems, but it’s worse than you think. Once the system seemed to be “working,” the district needed the police to continue lowering arrests year-over-year, which meant that the police were being forced to excuse ever more severe criminal acts................
Not my bold.

..............“Over time, even the most severe of unlawful conduct was being filtered by responding police.
We found out about it when six cops blew the whistle on severe criminal conduct they were being instructed to hide. The sheriff and police Chiefs were telling street cops and school cops to ignore ever-worsening criminal conduct.
The police were in a bind. They were encountering evidence of criminal conduct, and yet they had to hide the conduct. There were examples of burglary and robbery where the police had to hide the recovered evidence in order to let the kids get away without reports.

O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!
Allegedly.
 
Don't think distance would come into it inside a school, aircraft hanger yes,
but I see your point
lot of big spaces in American high schools. In columbine they were in the dining hall shooting. Then you have gyms, lecture halls and long halls. And outside areas. What if the shooter has gone grassy knoll? Lots of 'what ifs' at the time. Far,far, FAR too easy to sit inan armchair post media dissection and make judgement calls.
 
Anyone read about a 30 minute delay built into the school video surveillance tape?
This supposedly misled other police officers into believing the shooter was still active, when in fact he had already left the building.

And why would it have so long a delay?
 
I'd rather focus on praising guys like Sgt Heinrich who did the right thing than on finding fault with others who might or might not have done the wrong thing.
True but in a wider social context the gun blazing hero isn't a leitmotif that really helps the situation, is it? It just feeds into the frontier/Wild West gun culture.

America has armed police stationed at high schools and POTUS is actively suggesting arming teachers, this alone shows how ******* sick the society has become

Let me run that passed people again, arming teachers in schools as well as a constant armed police presence.

It's what dystopian nightmares are made of and it's a reality. Bonkers.
 
A police officer is killed in the line of duty every other day in America. ...
It's almost as dangerous as being a High School student.

.....

Officer’s Hesitation To Stop Shooting Fits A Pattern Of Police Cowardice

It'll be interesting when the facts of this incident come out, but using it as an excuse to arm Sister Mary Bridget, the Catholic Primary School Principal seems a tad precipitous as does ruining the life of a copper, who at 55, had probably taken the job of a school security guard, for a quiet life.
Not saying I'd do any better but it was his job to dive in immediately. That said he was the Good Guy with a Gun who the NRA and some members of this site assure us are the answer to the Mass Shooter problem so we owe him a debt of gratitude for putting that lie to bed.

Sister Mary Bridget of course will have no need of a firearm. She will simply freeze the Bad Guy in his tracks with a steely look.
 
From 1994 - Offspring.

Hey they don't pay no mind
If you're under 18 you won't be doing any time
Hey, come out and play
It goes down the same as the thousand before
No one's getting smarter
No one's learning the score

 
lot of big spaces in American high schools. In columbine they were in the dining hall shooting. Then you have gyms, lecture halls and long halls. And outside areas. What if the shooter has gone grassy knoll? Lots of 'what ifs' at the time. Far,far, FAR too easy to sit inan armchair post media dissection and make judgement calls.
None of it changes the fact that he stood by doing f*ck all in big lumps while kids and unarmed teachers were being murdered, despite being the best equipped for the situation by way of being armed and it being part of his job description to provide protection. Even if he hadn't confronted the shooter directly, he could still have done a hell of lot more than he apparently did.

I agree that there will be few or none of here who've faced this scenario but there are plenty on this site who've gone into highly dangerous situations seriously under-equipped, with no questions asked and with less motivation for doing so than kids from their local community being murdered in large numbers. It doesn't make them heroes but they've faced the same choices as this creature and they can't simply be dismissed as armchair experts.

That said, his boss seems to be a piece of work and a self-propelled leadership failure.
 
lot of big spaces in American high schools. In columbine they were in the dining hall shooting. Then you have gyms, lecture halls and long halls. And outside areas. What if the shooter has gone grassy knoll? Lots of 'what ifs' at the time. Far,far, FAR too easy to sit inan armchair post media dissection and make judgement calls.
Not judging the man, only he knows the truth of his actions,
 
Last edited:
This is from one of my LE Forum, even though he had a wife and his child there, 99.9% of the cops I worked with would have been on the same page with him:

We can now thank Sgt. Jeff Heinrich of the Coral Springs Police Department. Sgt. Heinrich was off duty and unarmed at the time of the shooting. He has close ties to the school, and was actually on campus, watering a baseball field, when the shooting started.

Sgt. Heinrich's wife is an assistant athletic director at the school. His son is a student. Sgt. Heinrich was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, and was unarmed.
When the fire alarm went off, he didn't think it was unusual. The panic that ensued changed his mind. When he heard shots, he ran toward the sound of the gunfire. On his way to the school, he found a student who had been shot in the leg. Sgt. Heinrich moved the boy to a dugout and stabilized him with supplies in the baseball team's first-aid kit.

He then ran back to the school. There, he met a Coral Springs SWAT team member who had extra gear. Sgt. Heinrich threw on an extra vest (one that wasn't rated to stop rifle fire). The SWAT officer handed over his sidearm so Sgt. Heinrich wouldn't be unarmed, and they entered the building.

Sgt. Heinrich ran into the chaos. He didn't wait outside. The officers from Coral Springs led the way. Behind them, paramedics were able to triage and treat the wounded. The SWAT medics from Coral Springs provided crucial support.
brave as his actions undoubtedly were, he was with a group of formed specialists. Able to cover a 360 degree arc, with weapons that allowed peer on peer or overmatch capabilities. Not, say, alone copper with a glock and a spare clip. We've heard what he didn't do, what did he do? And I'd be quite interested to learn of the relationship between the two forces.
 
brave as his actions undoubtedly were, he was with a group of formed specialists. Able to cover a 360 degree arc, with weapons that allowed peer on peer or overmatch capabilities. Not, say, alone copper with a glock and a spare clip. We've heard what he didn't do, what did he do? And I'd be quite interested to learn of the relationship between the two forces.
It is doesn't say he met the Coral Springs SWAT unit, it says 'There, he met a Coral Springs SWAT team member who had extra gear'.

Smaller Departments often have part time SWAT units who act as normal patrol officers with their SWAT gear in the boot in case there is a call out.

Most Departments in the US have mutual aid agreements with surrounding Departments but to a degree that goes out the window as soon as there is an active shooter, every cop in the area immediately heads towards the incident whether there is a mutual aid agreement or not.
 
It is doesn't say he met the Coral Springs SWAT unit, it says 'There, he met a Coral Springs SWAT team member who had extra gear'.
So, it just may be the case that the bloke ambled up, found an idle SWAT guy, took time to exchange pleasantries, borrowed the vest, weapon and other sundry gizzits from his new chum and dressed himself with said attire.......before going in, doubtless behind the SWAT team.

Spin is everything.
 

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