Hold off on the Tar and Feathers

Should the Americans hold off on the tars and feather for the High School Cop?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 45.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 17.6%
  • I like Egg Banjos

    Votes: 51 47.2%

  • Total voters
    108
Oh look it appears that not all school do all practise it
This is America: 9 out of 10 public schools now hold mass shooting drills for students

Doesnt appear that the drills are the same either.

That means the training must be specifically tailored to respond to an armed gunman out to kill. There is no consensus on what these drills should look like, but several states, including Missouri, require shooting simulations with police officers.


Incidentally Im sure everyone in the British army are experts at CBRN, Map reading, basic life saving, after all they do the training every year...
That is the schools, not the police. There isn't a police officer in the US that doesn't know what is expected of them at an active shooter incident. There is variation in what specific drills are taught (same as everyone teaches section attacks slightly differently) but the one absolute constant is you move towards the gunman and you don't wait.

You have now had people from three other countries all confirming that is what is taught to their officers too on this thread alone. I can name several other countries where this is the SOP if that would help you get your head around it?
 
My brother in law tells me of patrols in Afghan where people were physically sick with fear before stepping out from a FOB but still went.
Did he tell you about the many times soldiers reacted in the wrong way or just froze as well? Or was he in one of those regiments that some of the double hard tough guys on this thread must have been in?
 
That is the schools, not the police. There isn't a police officer in the US that doesn't know what is expected of them at an active shooter incident. There is variation in what specific drills are taught (same as everyone teaches section attacks slightly differently) but the one absolute constant is you move towards the gunman and you don't wait.
But you said

But of course, every cop that has done this for real in the US in the last 20 years, every LE and private training agency in the US that teaches active shooter response, every country (including this one) that have now adopted the same drills are all wrong.
Strange eh? Almost like some people in the military will know exactly what to do (and react correctly) when they come under fire and some will be like rabbits in the headlights, despite all training being the same but with variations.

You have now had people from three other countries all confirming that is what is taught to their officers too on this thread alone. I can name several other countries where this is the SOP if that would help you get your head around it?
Like I said, all soldiers are trained in CBRN, does that make them experts in the matter when someone launches a chemical attack on them?
If the police in the states are so ******* perfect why do they keep making mistakes from laying into airline passengers to shooting unarmed black people?
 
Dunno where she gets the aggression from...
Mum's side, obviously.

PS.
Another slant here;
Exposing the Deep Rot in the Deep State

...................Eric Holder, who conned governments into thinking that disparate outcomes – that is, more arrests and school expulsions of black kids than white kids – were the result of discrimination, did not discriminate regarding conduct issues. Local governments were rewarded with grants if they kept school arrests down, the cover being "let's stop the pipeline from schools to prisons." Without arrests, there was no record in background checks to keep violent people from having guns. It's that simple: no matter what steps you put into place to prevent such things, if the procedure is corrupted, it won't work. No matter how many armed deputies are at the site, if they are following orders not to intercede, or at least permitted to just stand idly by, they will be useless as protection.
 
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Wouldn't want to be a security bloke bimbling around the place waving a Glock with a mob of responders a couple of minutes behind me who possibly don't know me from a bar of soap. Good way to get hurt I should think. First inkling that responders may be about and I'd be hitting the floor spreadeagled as probably the safest option.

Hi vis and all the other accoutrements may help for a bit until the loons start wearing the same kit. Still think the trick is to lock up the dribblers before they get the chance to wig out but that would send the civil rights mob into a shit flinging froth.
 
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I'm not surprised, considering that this is primarily a Military site, and doubtless MANY on here have been involved in Ops. requiring a similar reaction of MOVING FORWARD - AND IN, to deal with the situation being faced.

Additionally - again - MANY on this site have heard the SNAP of a round passing ''that'' close to your head , concentrating your mind wonderfully - but I bet ALL who read this post , STILL went ahead and DID what was expected.
While it's true that soldiers (generally) react 'better' than this copper did, it should be remembered that the soldier will be holding a weapon roughly equivalent to what's being fired at him, has his mates beside him, other sections/platoons/companies beside them and mortars/MG/arty/armour/AH/fast air in support and he will have rehearsed the moment that someone shouts 'contact front' thousands of times with both blank and live ammunition before the moment it happens.

The policeman had (we assume) a 9mm pistol while facing an unknown number of enemy armed with semi-automatic 5.56mm on his own, possibly with the very bare minimum of training.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
I retired from US Law Enforcement two years ago after 25 years (State Police).
Drift off thread. Can I ask, how do the differing forces, State, Sherrifs and County work? I've travelled to the US a lot but never got sensible answer. I get how the Federal agencies work, but don't understand how the others differ in their responsibility?
 
Drift off thread. Can I ask, how do the differing forces, State, Sherrifs and County work? I've travelled to the US a lot but never got sensible answer. I get how the Federal agencies work, but don't understand how the others differ in their responsibility?
Basically it’s geographic- sheriffs/state enforce do the normal police work according to county. State normally look after freeways/interstates, city cops. Yeah .. well the city.

Federal are more specific to the dept, but there is some overlap and there can be grants that mean some depts will support others in special projects.

If an officer needs immediate backup - they come from wherever they are. I have worked a DUI a checkpoint at the beach that had 6 local depts helping, plus CHP ( there money was paying for it) and a DEA guy on loan to a dept.

The DEA agent was probably on about 60% salary of the beach city cops and had a lot more ‘exciting’ job in my opinion.
 
While it's true that soldiers (generally) react 'better' than this copper did, it should be remembered that the soldier will be holding a weapon roughly equivalent to what's being fired at him, has his mates beside him, other sections/platoons/companies beside them and mortars/MG/arty/armour/AH/fast air in support and he will have rehearsed the moment that someone shouts 'contact front' thousands of times with both blank and live ammunition before the moment it happens.

The policeman had (we assume) a 9mm pistol while facing an unknown number of enemy armed with semi-automatic 5.56mm on his own, possibly with the very bare minimum of training.
He had been a sheriff for many years - I think it’s pretty clear to everyone that he failed in his mission.

And it also is a finger in the eye of the sheriff and his ‘ civilians don’t need guns, the police will come and rescue you’ message.

I guess it depends on how many years left until retirement, for the officer responding.
 
It seems some of the condemnation of Deputy Peterson stems from the fact that the shooter was apprehended fairly easily by other officers. Some people are under the assumption that Peterson could have drawn his weapon and told him to surrender like the actual arresting officers did, but the situations are were completely different. Arresting someone while they are gunning people down is quite different from doing it while they are strolling down the street.
 
But you said



Strange eh? Almost like some people in the military will know exactly what to do (and react correctly) when they come under fire and some will be like rabbits in the headlights, despite all training being the same but with variations.



Like I said, all soldiers are trained in CBRN, does that make them experts in the matter when someone launches a chemical attack on them?
If the police in the states are so ******* perfect why do they keep making mistakes from laying into airline passengers to shooting unarmed black people?
The British Army teaches everyone the same way to do a section attack, yet different battalions, companies and even platoons have slightly different ways of doing it.

I will guarantee that you have never, ever seen me suggest that the US police are perfect.

You have had multiple people from multiple countries explain that going towards the sound of the shooting and engaging is what is taught to police for active shooter incidents. The entire internet is awash with serving and former police officers saying that is what they were taught and the Broward County Deputies shouldn't have waited. You have the Coral Springs Officers, who went straight into the building when they arrived because they thought the incident was ongoing, saying they were shocked to find the Broward County guys outside.

So how about you post one bit of evidence that any US Police Department, or a Western European one, are teaching their people to wait outside the scene of the incident for SWAT, more info etc etc during an active shooter incident?
 
The British Army teaches everyone the same way to do a section attack, yet different battalions, companies and even platoons have slightly different ways of doing it.

I will guarantee that you have never, ever seen me suggest that the US police are perfect.

You have had multiple people from multiple countries explain that going towards the sound of the shooting and engaging is what is taught to police for active shooter incidents. The entire internet is awash with serving and former police officers saying that is what they were taught and the Broward County Deputies shouldn't have waited. You have the Coral Springs Officers, who went straight into the building when they arrived because they thought the incident was ongoing, saying they were shocked to find the Broward County guys outside.

So how about you post one bit of evidence that any US Police Department, or a Western European one, are teaching their people to wait outside the scene of the incident for SWAT, more info etc etc during an active shooter incident?

Do you think that a Platoon of Paras and a Troop of AGC will react the same way if they came under fire?

Did I say they were taught to stay outside? Maybe the cop wasnt a super cool, ultra hard, model officer like yourself,
 
Drift off thread. Can I ask, how do the differing forces, State, Sherrifs and County work? I've travelled to the US a lot but never got sensible answer. I get how the Federal agencies work, but don't understand how the others differ in their responsibility?
State Police have jurisdiction Statewide, Sheriff's Dept have jurisdiction countywide in their county and Police Departments and Township departments have jurisdiction in their city/town/village or township

State Police also handle criminal investigations for crimes such as murder, kidnapping, rape and arson and all the other crimes covered by law. Many towns/villages a lot of the time have neither the funding nor the manpower for lengthy investigations and so State Police will investigate.
 

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