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HMS Westminster

1. Sprog
2. I am genuinely shocked and not sure if I can believe you. Why on earth not? They are morale on a plate.

I look them in the trays, swimming in grease, and they just make me feel a little bit sick. Plus over-cooked pussers mousetrap and a slightly undercooked egg don't really do it for me.
 
Nice to get so many replies and insulting folks over the internet is easy, but hey ho....

Been on exercises, got the T-shirt and if the ship had been closed up at defence watches for a several weeks??? that would explain things, I accept what one poster said about sailors might not paint the ship anymore as that would explain this condition but surely there is still some sort of pride about how a ship looks?

The attached images hopefully show the two Chinese frigates I saw crossing a very calm Bay of Biscay and yes, these ships had also been on exercise with the Russian Navy and no doubt had been away from home a long time but look at those ships...View attachment 491330View attachment 491331y and were now making there way home.

For all you Internet warriors that are hurling insults, compare her condition to that of HMS Westminster and yup, I could post any number of images of Royal Navy ships that are just as immaculate but it just saddened me to see Westminster looking so tired.

That reminds me of a story from my youth.

My mates younger brother (I know) bought a Peugeot 205 GTI with Dimma (copy) body kit:



It was nicked one night, hotwired and dumped around the corner less than 100m away.

Why, well as our mechanic mate identified, the angle of the engine showed it was a 1.1litre engine dressed up like a slaaaaaaag, as soon as the joyriders heard it squeak they didnt even bother!
 
@irlsgt I am intrigued as to how my statement of fact above deserves a dislike?
:) awhen a reasonable question is asked, do we really care if folks dislike what we say?
Although Jenny sadly passed away in 2009, with Bojo offering 3 million Hong Kong people British Citizenship, perhaps the answer would be to employ some of her old girls.

View attachment 491334View attachment 491335
Jenny employed scrubbers :) (Not what some folks are thinking) The scrubbers prepared the metalwork and the rest of her crew would paint the ship but NO..... We never waited until Hong Kong to paint ship.

This was always an ongoing maintenance task. As soon as rust appeared, it was treated and unlike some folks suggest, rust was NEVER painted over. It was always removed and then primed before the top-coat was applied and I am surprised that folks here are suggesting rust will be ignored and simply painted over..

Those Chinese frigates might be newer than Westminster but who here can say what ship is worked harder? One poster appears to know that answer. I personally have NO idea how long Chinese warships deploy or how hard they are worked but I do know that ANY ship needs constant maintenance. and those ships deployed from China, the climax of that deployment was I believe a large exercise in the Barent Sea. (halfway around the World) The two ships are on there way home and yes, I give credit where credit is due, both warships were in an immaculate condition. Note however the lack of sailors on the upper deck. I was on a cruise ship which usually gets an 'audience' from warships that we pass, but clearly not on this occasion. This for me was the first time I had ever seen a Chinese warship, hence my interest in them.

The only way to keep any ship looking like pristine is to keep attacking corrosion, we can all make excuses about why it is not done and of course it would be folly to hang over the side whilst at sea but it is not folly to remove rust before it becomes a problem.

HMS Carysfort Entering Grand Harbour Malta 1966.jpg


Folks make the excuse about Westminster being older than the Chinese ships. Okay so here we have an even older British warship that entered service in 1945. This image was taken in 1966 when she was returning home after a 12 month deployment in the Far East. For those old sea salts that know their ports, yup, the ship is entering Grand Harbour, Malta. Spot the rust.. The ship has an open bridge, in rough weather, the thing was like a submarine, no air conditioning and as can be seen NO rust.,

I am clearly in the minority for raising this post but the replies might well highlight why Westminster looks like it does.


I guess the bottom line is that I am from a different era where we were proud of our ship and we all took a pride in its appearance, I guess I am not used to seeing a ship in such a tired state which must have taken weeks or even months to develop. I do not apologize for my post but have read with interest the replies.

I have made my point and folks have politely pointed out how they disagree.... Job done and there is nothing else I can add.
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Hi
This frigate has been anchored in Torbay over the week-end and if this ship demonstrates the standards of the Royal Navy, then all I can say is thank goodness we have an Army.

When warships were fighting in the South Atlantic, appearance played second fiddle, but this week-end there was clearly no fiddle player on that ship!! I thing looked so tired on the outside, what must it look like on the inside?

A couple of years ago we were crossing the Bay of Biscay, and it saddens me to say we saw two Chinese frigates plus tenders, all sailing south. These ships were immaculate, not a trace of rust or 'tired' paintwork. What has happened to our once senior service? Are we not proud of our ships? Do we not take frigate in our home?

If it don't move paint it
If it does move, salute itView attachment 491262

Is this ship off to the breakers?
**** off ****
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
This was always an ongoing maintenance task. As soon as rust appeared, it was treated and unlike some folks suggest, rust was NEVER painted over. It was always removed and then primed before the top-coat was applied and I am surprised that folks here are suggesting rust will be ignored and simply painted over..

Important point to note is that modern paints - while considerably more protective - aren't suited to local application, unlike the older oil-based compounds. The newer paints need a lot more PPE to apply safely (the fumes are considerably more toxic and inflammable than conventional paint); are best applied to freshly-blasted bare metal; and proper environmental control is needed (weatherproof tenting and controlled ventilation). The payoff is that you may get some streaking and discoloration, but the modern epoxy-based paints are much better than older equivalents at inhibiting significant corrosion for much longer. The drawback is that you can't do much by way of repainting or touching up outside dockyard time... so your ship lasts much longer but might look a little scruffy on occasion.

While rust might not have been "painted over", existing paint often was - when the Leanders were getting their big upgrades in the 1970s and 1980s, up to 80 layers of paint were having to be stripped off the upperworks, adding up to 45 tons of topweight! (that's enough for a couple of gun or missile mounts...) This didn't actually protect the structure that well - during her modernisation it was found that most of Cleopatra's keel was corroded to the point of needing to be entirely replaced.
 
Wow, you Russian trolls are scraping the barrel here - Using a B&W picture of HMS Carysfort, and saying how splendid she looks. In glorious technicolor you'd have probably seen all sorts on a ship that was only 2 years out of refit.

Harping back to a day when we had single role ships in a non domestic deployed flotilla that probably spent a lot of her time alongside Valetta or Gib being painted over and keeping the buffer happy. Compared with a very active workhorse of a multi role frigate that probably has a worked up crew that was showing all the other navies how its done.

Are you the relative that the rest of the family ignores on Christmas day getting bombed on sherry and standing for the Queen's speech? You must be a hoot.

PS "Snorkers... Good-o"
 

maritime

Old-Salt
Used to hoover out every single ring bolt on the flight deck / hangar deck And carry out some maintenance on them. They Probably still do it now. Out in Singers Painting the ships letter on flight deck . Big f o ‘N’. Here’s us ,4in brushes and pusers white. Thinking gonna be here all afternoon. Nah , fook that. Right, you pour all over and I’ll use this wide headed soft yard brush (you know those brushes that are treble The size Across of a bog standard one) in lieu of a paint brush. Got the job done in a quarter of the time , FDO happy,Chiefs happy,Were chopped , off ashore ,we‘are happy.
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
:) awhen a reasonable question is asked, do we really care if folks dislike what we say?

Jenny employed scrubbers :) (Not what some folks are thinking) The scrubbers prepared the metalwork and the rest of her crew would paint the ship but NO..... We never waited until Hong Kong to paint ship.

This was always an ongoing maintenance task. As soon as rust appeared, it was treated and unlike some folks suggest, rust was NEVER painted over. It was always removed and then primed before the top-coat was applied and I am surprised that folks here are suggesting rust will be ignored and simply painted over..

Those Chinese frigates might be newer than Westminster but who here can say what ship is worked harder? One poster appears to know that answer. I personally have NO idea how long Chinese warships deploy or how hard they are worked but I do know that ANY ship needs constant maintenance. and those ships deployed from China, the climax of that deployment was I believe a large exercise in the Barent Sea. (halfway around the World) The two ships are on there way home and yes, I give credit where credit is due, both warships were in an immaculate condition. Note however the lack of sailors on the upper deck. I was on a cruise ship which usually gets an 'audience' from warships that we pass, but clearly not on this occasion. This for me was the first time I had ever seen a Chinese warship, hence my interest in them.

The only way to keep any ship looking like pristine is to keep attacking corrosion, we can all make excuses about why it is not done and of course it would be folly to hang over the side whilst at sea but it is not folly to remove rust before it becomes a problem.

View attachment 491544

Folks make the excuse about Westminster being older than the Chinese ships. Okay so here we have an even older British warship that entered service in 1945. This image was taken in 1966 when she was returning home after a 12 month deployment in the Far East. For those old sea salts that know their ports, yup, the ship is entering Grand Harbour, Malta. Spot the rust.. The ship has an open bridge, in rough weather, the thing was like a submarine, no air conditioning and as can be seen NO rust.,

I am clearly in the minority for raising this post but the replies might well highlight why Westminster looks like it does.


I guess the bottom line is that I am from a different era where we were proud of our ship and we all took a pride in its appearance, I guess I am not used to seeing a ship in such a tired state which must have taken weeks or even months to develop. I do not apologize for my post but have read with interest the replies.

I have made my point and folks have politely pointed out how they disagree.... Job done and there is nothing else I can add.
Modern RN ships are highly automated and consequently have less manpower on-board, so maintenance tasks (preventative and corrective) are prioritised. Don't know what it was like in your day but there ain't that many in a frigate's Core Complement these days:

ETA: Leander Class - 260 (Wiki)
Duke Class (T23) - 185 (RN website)
City Class (T26) - even less! (Need to know, currently)

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

NSP

LE
Jenny employed scrubbers :) (Not what some folks are thinking) The scrubbers prepared the metalwork and the rest of her crew would paint the ship but NO..... We never waited until Hong Kong to paint ship.

This was always an ongoing maintenance task. As soon as rust appeared, it was treated and unlike some folks suggest, rust was NEVER painted over. It was always removed and then primed before the top-coat was applied and I am surprised that folks here are suggesting rust will be ignored and simply painted over..

Those Chinese frigates might be newer than Westminster but who here can say what ship is worked harder?
They probably take the same approach to ship maintenance as they do to churning out low-quality consumer tat in their factories, and thus slap a bit of grey over the rust streaks.
 

NSP

LE
Grand Harbour, Valletta...?

Unfortunately, I don't have any comparable images as I was distracted by all the WWII stuff on the other side of the harbour mouth...
Valletta101.jpg


Did see the Queen K, though...
Valletta025.jpg


Speaking of rust, I got on this toilet after I'd finished on the ol' tub I was stood on when I took this...
Valletta043.jpg


And this could do with a bit of over-the-side attention (or, at least, it did back then)...
Valletta016.jpg
 

NSP

LE
Wow, you Russian trolls are scraping the barrel here - Using a B&W picture of HMS Carysfort, and saying how splendid she looks. In glorious technicolor you'd have probably seen all sorts on a ship that was only 2 years out of refit.
Indeed... ;)

HMS Carysfort Entering Grand Harbour Malta 1966.jpg
 
Using a B&W picture of HMS Carysfort, and saying how splendid she looks. In glorious technicolor you'd have probably seen all sorts on a ship that was only 2 years out of refit.
I was going to say that. And that while she may have been afloat for 25 years (photo at age 21), she spent about half of that parked up, either in reserve, being modernised or undergoing frequent refits.
 

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