HMS Queen Elizabeth's captain sacked - for using his official car at weekends

So they joined the RN and they're pissed off that they have to go away on ships? They sound like merchant navy cadets who complain about the fact that faceache is slow when you're in the middle of the Pacific...
The majority have done longer than me and I'm in my 24th year. The one thing in the Andrews favour is the lack of exposure to civvy industry.
 
The majority have done longer than me and I'm in my 24th year. The one thing in the Andrews favour is the lack of exposure to civvy industry.

I don't know much about RN engineering but merch engineers find it fairly easy to find a job ashore. Being a deckie is a bit of a different story.
 
Explain the shore draft balance for me please. Do the RN get paid more when they're at sea?
Bear in mind I'm Army. The point I'm making is that people are spending a lot more time at see than they used to. And due to the nature of the business the availability of communications is not conducive with modern life. However, go away as a civilian, on contractor pay and the sting is taken away. I was chatting to some US contractors in the indian ocean and their schedules are horrific, but their pay more than makes up for it. Nobody needs the Navy these days.
 
Bear in mind I'm Army. The point I'm making is that people are spending a lot more time at see than they used to. And due to the nature of the business the availability of communications is not conducive with modern life. However, go away as a civilian, on contractor pay and the sting is taken away. I was chatting to some US contractors in the indian ocean and their schedules are horrific, but their pay more than makes up for it. Nobody needs the Navy these days.

What kind of schedules are the contractors doing? Genuine curiosity.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Nobody needs the Navy these days.
That's a bold statement and given that I task a huge number of the Naval engineers and contractors I can absolutely state there are times when you need both. There are lots of events and things I cannot ask or task contractors to do. The whole force approach despite being a bit of a cliche is very much a real need.
 
I was pissed, and they were really pissed but 3 months on 1 month off springs to mind.

Sounds a bit shit for westerners. Back in the day westerners in the merch used to do 2 on 1 off although I believe it's improved since. The difference is that there are no shore bases. You're on leave or at sea.

Lascars and Filipinos used to sign on for a year and I think they still do at least 6 months at a time. The official minimum ILO leave rate is 30 days per year!
 
They don't pay food & accommodation and their LSA payments and X factor are for the time away (separation).

They don't pay food and accommodation ashore or at sea?

What are LSA and X factor? I'm a complete ignoramus about the working conditions (and the acronyms ;-) ) in the RN.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Bear in mind I'm Army. The point I'm making is that people are spending a lot more time at see than they used to.
I'd say it's more time and sea and away than they'd like. The downside of a smaller Fleet and trying to re-organise is some of the same units tend to be deployed back to back and we civilianised/contracterised a lot of our shore support posts in the 90s and that makes it harder for harmony time.

Kroneit44 said:
And due to the nature of the business the availability of communications is not conducive with modern life. .
And there's no getting around that. We are way ahead of most other Navies in installing welfare wifi/services afloat which is well received even when there are issues with it but it's not limitless and it's expensive.
 
That's a bold statement and given that I task a huge number of the Naval engineers and contractors I can absolutely state there are times when you need both. There are lots of events and things I cannot ask or task contractors to do. The whole force approach despite being a bit of a cliche is very much a real need.
You misunderstand me. HMG needs the Navy, without a doubt. The public don't need what the Navy has to offer as they can get elsewhere.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
They don't pay food and accommodation ashore or at sea?

What are LSA and X factor? I'm a complete ignoramus about the working conditions (and the acronyms ;-) ) in the RN.
Sorry - We have an allowance (Long Service Allowance) in essence the more time you spend away the higher the band you are allocated (which of course grows), it's around £14-30 a day extra. X factor is the 14.5% additional pay in our salary for the 'nause factor of a service career vice a civilian career.
 
I'd say it's more time and sea and away than they'd like. The downside of a smaller Fleet and trying to re-organise is some of the same units tend to be deployed back to back and we civilianised/contracterised a lot of our shore support posts in the 90s and that makes it harder for harmony time.

And there's no getting around that. We are way ahead of most other Navies in installing welfare wifi/services afloat which is well received even when there are issues with it but it's not limitless and it's expensive.
I don't mean to sound flippant here but for me harmony is time spend away with limited communications. That time is 6-9 months and is now unlikely to happen again. It's palatable for my family. It's different for the Andrew, and I would argue the impact a lot more severe on family life.
 
I'd say it's more time and sea and away than they'd like. The downside of a smaller Fleet and trying to re-organise is some of the same units tend to be deployed back to back and we civilianised/contracterised a lot of our shore support posts in the 90s and that makes it harder for harmony time.
I'd say spending four consecutive school summer holidays away from home doesn't help.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
You misunderstand me. HMG needs the Navy, without a doubt. The public don't need what the Navy has to offer as they can get elsewhere.
I'd agree, a millennial life style and aspirations are most usually not compatible with the demands of the Service. Portfolio careers and quick changes are anathema to an organisation that needs around 8 years to develop a competent and safe Senior Rate, or 12-14 for a useful senior Warfare Officer.

In my view, as we tend to be more like the RAF, and more technically biased, we will be hit the hardest by this and I'm not really seeing a lot of change in how we train/develop to try to mitigate this.
 
Sorry - We have an allowance (Long Service Allowance) in essence the more time you spend away the higher the band you are allocated (which of course grows), it's around £14-30 a day extra. X factor is the 14.5% additional pay in our salary for the 'nause factor of a service career vice a civilian career.
How much!

50p a day for NI X factor in my day. 2 cans from the choggie and a mars bar.
 
I'd agree, a millennial life style and aspirations are most usually not compatible with the demands of the Service. Portfolio careers and quick changes are anathema to an organisation that needs around 8 years to develop a competent and safe Senior Rate, or 12-14 for a useful senior Warfare Officer.

In my view, as we tend to be more like the RAF, and more technically biased, we will be hit the hardest by this and I'm not really seeing a lot of change in how we train/develop to try to mitigate this.
Money, baron greenback is the only thing that can make it an attractive proposition.
 

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