HM Ambassador to the US and those leaks

If you only listen to one or two sources then yes, you’ll only get part of the story. ‘Twas ever thus...

Jonesy, in the nicest possible way, I think you underestimate the ability of people over here to understand Trump’s appeal. We get it, we really do. What people dislike is his manner, his personality, his disdain for talking to people like they’re human. He treats everyone and everything like it’s his personal property.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know..politics is changing, away with the old blah blah blah.
He was elected to be the Anti Christ. He has done that rather well. The establishment on both sides was about to be torched, he saved the GOP from itself. The icing on the cake is now watching the Dems melt down.
 
  • Boris is the presumptive next PM.
  • That decision will be made within the month.
  • The 'ridiculous TV programme' was a formal leadership debate airing the views and policies of the candidates.
  • Ergo, things he says matter, regardless of his official position.
If you are suggesting that what he says doesn't hold substantially more weight right now than the majority of actual government ministers, perhaps you are not as wise as you think you are. He didn't need to have buttons to push or orders to give, yet his contribution made a much bigger impact on the individual and media than the current PM's / Foreign Secretary's public opinions' on the matter. If politics was only ever about what politicians do, then none of them would ever appear on a screen again.

There is a whole Olympic season of mental gymnastics going on in some parts of the population, it seems.

PS I know several people who have worked for and around Boris, and two for Hunt. They all thought broadly the same as you do. Those who worked for Hunt changed their mind to the positive. Those for Boris to the negative, quite radically so. There is a reason why so many people have knives out for him, and that should be some sort of warning.

Check this space in a few years. I suspect you are going to be deeply disappointed.

PPS I don't hate Boris. I do feel a bit like the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes though. But that mostly means I think all you lot are idiots. Boris is exactly what he has obviously been for years. If you choose to ignore that, more fool you.
Fair play. I still believe all of the TV programmes showing these debates are ridiculous, they are aimed at a minority audience, Boris can't be arrsed with them (fairly obvious to see) and Hunt needs the exposure.

Boris says we are coming out of Europe (he's a professional politician and a proven liar, so that may change) and Hunt is a remainer no matter what he says.

I still do not believe Boris threw the Ambassador under the bus. Sir Kim is big enough, experienced enough and wise enough to follow his own head and heart.

I will not be disappointed in a couple of years, I lost faith in our politicians a long time ago, so my bar of expectation is set very low indeed and it doesn't matter what I think about Boris, or Hunt as I have no say in the matter anymore.
 
I’m having trouble with this point. On the surface it makes sense, but how did he save the GOP from itself exactly? I’m not disagreeing per se - I think I know what you mean - l would just appreciate a little more clarity.

The establishment GOP candidates were all considered RINO’s who would have kept up with the policies of Obama and Junior. Which to say might not have been all to popular with the plebes. Trump has destroyed the old order and with it’s demise has breathed life into the GOP. In essence they are becoming the party of the common man and filling the void the Democrats of old used to occupy.

He is not a Republican, or a good person. But he is destroying the Dems who have gone off the deep end. I don’t fear Trump, but he is tolerable. The new wave of AOC types however are a different matter.
 
The establishment GOP candidates were all considered RINO’s who would have kept up with the policies of Obama and Junior. Which to say might not have been all to popular with the plebes. Trump has destroyed the old order and with it’s demise has breathed life into the GOP. In essence they are becoming the party of the common man and filling the void the Democrats of old used to occupy.

He is not a Republican, or a good person. But he is destroying the Dems who have gone off the deep end. I don’t fear Trump, but he is tolerable. The new wave of AOC types however are a different matter.
Cool, thank you.
 
No problem.

But from my perspective it is going to be a hoot to see your own Trump in action!! If anything BOJO will provide thousands of posts worth of banter!
He’s a different kettle of fish. He isn’t looking to upend the order - he’s an Eton/Oxford old-school Tory, not a young pup/outsider. He wants to return to political business as usual, and in that I think he’ll be successful. Many people reckon he’ll let Corbyn in, but Labour is destroying itself much like the Dems; they aren’t getting into Number Ten any time soon.
His similarity to Trump is that he views the Premiership as the point of it all; he wants to be PM for his own sake, not the sake of the nation.

Will he do a good job? Well, anything’s possible. He’s highly intelligent (which is not the same as sensible), and has avoided being drawn on actual policies and plans past Brexit, so we really have no idea what he’s gonna do! As you say, should be interesting...
 
He’s a different kettle of fish. He isn’t looking to upend the order - he’s an Eton/Oxford old-school Tory, not a young pup/outsider. He wants to return to political business as usual, and in that I think he’ll be successful. Many people reckon he’ll let Corbyn in, but Labour is destroying itself much like the Dems; they aren’t getting into Number Ten any time soon.
His similarity to Trump is that he views the Premiership as the point of it all; he wants to be PM for his own sake, not the sake of the nation.

Will he do a good job? Well, anything’s possible. He’s highly intelligent (which is not the same as sensible), and has avoided being drawn on actual policies and plans past Brexit, so we really have no idea what he’s gonna do! As you say, should be interesting...
Well it can’t get any worse at this point.
But I think the odds of crashing out will be fairly high. I shall of course take notes.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
He was elected to be the Anti Christ. He has done that rather well. The establishment on both sides was about to be torched, he saved the GOP from itself. The icing on the cake is now watching the Dems melt down.
You say that, and in the short-term I think there's a good chance he'll get re-elected. But I think you are going to find that the long-term damage is substantial:
  • Evangelicals have signed their own death warrant. They may get some legal decisions they like, but they have lost an entire generation of young people, who are never again going to see them as anything but the worst hypocrites for enthusiastically cheerleading a guy who is literally the polar opposite to Christian teaching (as you note). With that generation goes their children, and their children, and so on. Evangelicalism was the religion of hardcore values. It's now the religion of no values at all.
  • The GOP hasn't been saved, it's been destroyed - it's lost Congress and is sapping in the Senate. Moreover, Trump is [read to the end of the sentence before you condemn] like a dictator in that he has ensured there are no GOP options other than himself: it's classic cult of personality stuff. There are no GOP heavyweights at the moment, largely because the boss is desperately insecure and needs to make everyone else look like an idiot. Well, he's done it. They all look like lightweight, supine lackies without a spine between them. How is that going to do for them in Senate and Congress elections? What about after Trump?
  • GOP politicians have now institutionalised the Tea Party loyalty tests. Unfortunate fact is that those views really motivate 30-35% of the country, but really piss off everyone else. That means that any popular vote is all headwinds from now on out. They've totally surrendered the middle ground. Sooner or later you do have to win popular votes to get power. The electoral college will only go so far.
  • Trump / GOP sycophants have particularly lost women. That's just terrible politics. Sure - piss off blacks and mexicans and trans and whoever you want. That's still going to take a decade or more to bite you in the ass. But pissing off 50% of the current population at the same time is just idiocy.
You're happy that the Democrats are melting down, and yes they are making all sorts of unforced errors, that may even cost them the election. But here's the thing - your side is polling terribly even though the other side is a mess. It will take only a mild increase in competence from them to take advantage of all the problems Trump has stacked up for the GOP.

In short, you've done an Iraq rather than a China. All looks good now, but once the top guy goes, hang on for the ride down.
 
You say that, and in the short-term I think there's a good chance he'll get re-elected. But I think you are going to find that the long-term damage is substantial:
  • Evangelicals have signed their own death warrant. They may get some legal decisions they like, but they have lost an entire generation of young people, who are never again going to see them as anything but the worst hypocrites for enthusiastically cheerleading a guy who is literally the polar opposite to Christian teaching (as you note). With that generation goes their children, and their children, and so on. Evangelicalism was the religion of hardcore values. It's now the religion of no values at all.
  • The GOP hasn't been saved, it's been destroyed - it's lost Congress and is sapping in the Senate. Moreover, Trump is [read to the end of the sentence before you condemn] like a dictator in that he has ensured there are no GOP options other than himself: it's classic cult of personality stuff. There are no GOP heavyweights at the moment, largely because the boss is desperately insecure and needs to make everyone else look like an idiot. Well, he's done it. They all look like lightweight, supine lackies without a spine between them. How is that going to do for them in Senate and Congress elections? What about after Trump?
  • GOP politicians have now institutionalised the Tea Party loyalty tests. Unfortunate fact is that those views really motivate 30-35% of the country, but really piss off everyone else. That means that any popular vote is all headwinds from now on out. They've totally surrendered the middle ground. Sooner or later you do have to win popular votes to get power. The electoral college will only go so far.
  • Trump / GOP sycophants have particularly lost women. That's just terrible politics. Sure - piss off blacks and mexicans and trans and whoever you want. That's still going to take a decade or more to bite you in the ass. But pissing off 50% of the current population at the same time is just idiocy.
You're happy that the Democrats are melting down, and yes they are making all sorts of unforced errors, that may even cost them the election. But here's the thing - your side is polling terribly even though the other side is a mess. It will take only a mild increase in competence from them to take advantage of all the problems Trump has stacked up for the GOP.

In short, you've done an Iraq rather than a China. All looks good now, but once the top guy goes, hang on for the ride down.
Only time will tell.

The Liberals were supposed to have taken over by now, but they have not.
At this rate they might as well hang themselves, and start planning for 2024.

Hispanics and Blacks tend to be more culturally conservative. Many will vote with their pocketbooks. A strong economy will do more for them then SJW’s and quite a few know it. You don’t empower people with food stamps.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I will not be disappointed in a couple of years, I lost faith in our politicians a long time ago, so my bar of expectation is set very low indeed and it doesn't matter what I think about Boris, or Hunt as I have no say in the matter anymore.
Fair enough. I should have said that in a couple of years, the same kind of flapping, short attention span, inconsistency and laser self-interest that Boris has shown previously, will not have changed just because he is PM. I also think the Conservatives are doing it based on a desperately poor assumption: that he is a voter draw. This is based on very, very old data, in a very unrepresentative part of the country (London), and before he became a polarising figure due to Brexit.

If there is any group I wouldn't poll to understand what the majority of the population are interested in, it's the Conservative membership.
 
Fair enough. I should have said that in a couple of years, the same kind of flapping, short attention span, inconsistency and laser self-interest that Boris has shown previously, will not have changed just because he is PM. I also think the Conservatives are doing it based on a desperately poor assumption: that he is a voter draw. This is based on very, very old data, in a very unrepresentative part of the country (London), and before he became a polarising figure due to Brexit.

If there is any group I wouldn't poll to understand what the majority of the population are interested in, it's the Conservative membership.
And there, we have an agreement.
 

Latest Threads

Top