HM Ambassador to the US and those leaks

It’s a bad, bad precedent to allow the head of a foreign state to effectively force out our ambassador just because they don’t like how he spoke. But that’s the world we live in now.
At the same time we had an Ambassador that wasn't going to be able to work effectively.
Im with you we shouldn't have Foreign powers dictate who we can select at the same time theres no point in an ineffective representative.

Ironically had Trump kept his mouth shut - face could have been saved all round and the UK could quietly have exchanged him in a week or 3 .
Instead he boxed the UK in to a corner of either having someone Trump wont deal with or having a foreign power dictate to us. Ultimately I think falling on his sword was the only acceptable option - perhaps the most country 1st statesman like behaviour all round.

I hope his disgrace is short lived and next week he is UK Official representative to the FO equivalent of Shangri La.
 
At the same time we had an Ambassador that wasn't going to be able to work effectively.
Im with you we shouldn't have Foreign powers dictate who we can select at the same time theres no point in an ineffective representative.

Ironically had Trump kept his mouth shut - face could have been saved all round and the UK could quietly have exchanged him in a week or 3 .
Instead he boxed the UK in to a corner of either having someone Trump wont deal with or having a foreign power dictate to us. Ultimately I think falling on his sword was the only acceptable option - perhaps the most country 1st statesman like behaviour all round.

I hope his disgrace is short lived and next week he is UK Official representative to the FO equivalent of Shangri La.

Can’t you just send him to the school house to train the next generation?!
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Who had access to this data ? when was it published ??, was it all written prior to Boris leaving the FCO or after he had departed ??? who benefits from its release at a time explicitly targeted at the tory leadership election.

My view remains, one of two likely scenarios:-
1. Its nought to do with us and was an American hack designed to embarrass the president and used our political process as cover.
2. Hunt or people around Hunt did it. He isn't the favourite and needed an event, just as the Boris nocturnal argument was quickly blown up.

What is most interesting is the Daily Mail, it seems to have taken sides and not the side you would expect.
As before, this is crazy. There was no reasonable expectation that Boris would say anything other than what everyone else said. The moderator brought up a random news item. Hunt simply kicked the ball at an open goal once he saw Boris start to flap.

Going from there to "Hunt must have leaked it, because he knew the moderator would bring up the question, because he knew that Boris would flap and give a crap answer, so Hunt could win the debate" is such a feat of mental gymnastics that you will likely never unscrew your head ever again.

Your questions are doing what every conspiracy theory nut ever has done, which is to infer cause from correlation. The simplest explanation is that this has nothing to do with the leadership election, and Boris just fluffed a question he was unprepared for.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
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It was Hunt who made the silly promise to back Sir Kim under any circumstances. Boris refused to get drawn into it. It is you who are saying that he failed to back Sir Kim. I watched it and I thought Boris got it right.
To be fair: it's me and most everyone else who has voiced a public opinion on the matter.

My point remains that the phrase I suggested was what JH said; was what lots of other politicians have said when asked before and after; and not what Boris said. Whether you agree with him wasn't what you stated. You said he said what I suggested. He did not.
 
As before, this is crazy. There was no reasonable expectation that Boris would say anything other than what everyone else said. The moderator brought up a random news item. Hunt simply kicked the ball at an open goal once he saw Boris start to flap.

Going from there to "Hunt must have leaked it, because he knew the moderator would bring up the question, because he knew that Boris would flap and give a crap answer, so Hunt could win the debate" is such a feat of mental gymnastics that you will likely never unscrew your head ever again.

Your questions are doing what every conspiracy theory nut ever has done, which is to infer cause from correlation. The simplest explanation is that this has nothing to do with the leadership election, and Boris just fluffed a question he was unprepared for.
The leak was just coincidence?
In the final round of the Tory leadership election??
Involving a man who publically stated before the leak, his support for Boris ???

Who leaked it is anyone's guess, but timeing is everything.
 
You have no worries about becoming the 51st State. We don’t want you...

A state with the twice the population of California chock full of Liberals demanding political representation ... would tilt the balance. I shudder at that thought.

“Chock full of liberals”...haha!

Despite what a lot of people on here might think, the UK is at its core a conservative (note the small c) nation. Always has been, always will be...it’s not a bad thing.
 
“Chock full of liberals”...haha!

Despite what a lot of people on here might think, the UK is at its core a conservative (note the small c) nation. Always has been, always will be...it’s not a bad thing.

Look at your idea of conservative and compare it mine.
Most of your countrymen would shit themselves here. A few would don a Stetson and run to Sportsmen’s to buy guns and then to the Dodge dealership in a heart beat.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The leak was just coincidence?
In the final round of the Tory leadership election??
Involving a man who publically stated before the leak, his support for Boris ???

Who leaked it is anyone's guess, but timeing is everything.
Your wife gets annoyed at you when she goes in the cupboard to cook a roast, doesn't she.
 
...I hate Boris, and more stuff.

Regardless, let's assume you are correct. It's still a terrible way to deal with the situation which fits the description of him as a coward. He is just throwing a public servant under the bus. Why he's doing it is secondary. What are the results of that action?
How did Boris throw a public servant under the bus? Last time I looked, Boris isn't even part of the decision making process of Government.

If you are basing your writings on What Boris said, or didn't say on a ridiculous TV programme, then you are not as wise as perhaps you think you are.

I do not think, as you are also keen to point out, that Boris will take hit' for this.

Don't get me wrong, there are two wrong 'uns running for high office, but I believe Boris is the better wrong 'un and he'll get the job.
 
Look at your idea of conservative and compare it mine.
Most of your countrymen would shit themselves here. A few would don a Stetson and run to Sportsmen’s to buy guns and then to the Dodge dealership in a heart beat.
Yes indeed. We’re quite happy with our definition thank you.

Didn’t someone once describe the UK/USA as two nations separated by a common language?
 
Yes indeed. We’re quite happy with our definition thank you.

Didn’t someone once describe the UK/USA as two nations separated by a common language?
Language is just the tip of the Iceberg.

Remember I live in deep red Trump Country. The man is extremely popular here, which is a shame because I don’t think your news outlets report that.

You get half the story.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
How did Boris throw a public servant under the bus? Last time I looked, Boris isn't even part of the decision making process of Government.

If you are basing your writings on What Boris said, or didn't say on a ridiculous TV programme, then you are not as wise as perhaps you think you are.
  • Boris is the presumptive next PM.
  • That decision will be made within the month.
  • The 'ridiculous TV programme' was a formal leadership debate airing the views and policies of the candidates.
  • Ergo, things he says matter, regardless of his official position.
If you are suggesting that what he says doesn't hold substantially more weight right now than the majority of actual government ministers, perhaps you are not as wise as you think you are. He didn't need to have buttons to push or orders to give, yet his contribution made a much bigger impact on the individual and media than the current PM's / Foreign Secretary's public opinions' on the matter. If politics was only ever about what politicians do, then none of them would ever appear on a screen again.

There is a whole Olympic season of mental gymnastics going on in some parts of the population, it seems.

PS I know several people who have worked for and around Boris, and two for Hunt. They all thought broadly the same as you do. Those who worked for Hunt changed their mind to the positive. Those for Boris to the negative, quite radically so. There is a reason why so many people have knives out for him, and that should be some sort of warning.

Check this space in a few years. I suspect you are going to be deeply disappointed.

PPS I don't hate Boris. I do feel a bit like the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes though. But that mostly means I think all you lot are idiots. Boris is exactly what he has obviously been for years. If you choose to ignore that, more fool you.
 
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No, that's not the world we live in now. It's the world Trump lives in. The rest of the world doesn't operate in such a crass and infantile manner.
Remind me again which country has 12 great big FO carriers, plus associated battle groups etc. The world jumps or flinches when the USA gets p1ssed off, however infantile and crass you think their commander-in-chief is. Hint: commander-in-chief just might be a big clue as to the power he has on tap, 24/7/365/4/2.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
It was Hunt's shop that leaked and he has ministerial responsibility for what happened. He should go.
 
Language is just the tip of the Iceberg.

Remember I live in deep red Trump Country. The man is extremely popular here, which is a shame because I don’t think your news outlets report that.

You get half the story.
If you only listen to one or two sources then yes, you’ll only get part of the story. ‘Twas ever thus...

Jonesy, in the nicest possible way, I think you underestimate the ability of people over here to understand Trump’s appeal. We get it, we really do. What people dislike is his manner, his personality, his disdain for talking to people like they’re human. He treats everyone and everything like it’s his personal property.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know..politics is changing, away with the old blah blah blah.
 
If you only listen to one or two sources then yes, you’ll only get part of the story. ‘Twas ever thus...

Jonesy, in the nicest possible way, I think you underestimate the ability of people over here to understand Trump’s appeal. We get it, we really do. What people dislike is his manner, his personality, his disdain for talking to people like they’re human. He treats everyone and everything like it’s his personal property.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know..politics is changing, away with the old blah blah blah.
He was elected to be the Anti Christ. He has done that rather well. The establishment on both sides was about to be torched, he saved the GOP from itself. The icing on the cake is now watching the Dems melt down.
 
Remind me again which country has 12 great big FO carriers, plus associated battle groups etc. The world jumps or flinches when the USA gets p1ssed off, however infantile and crass you think their commander-in-chief is. Hint: commander-in-chief just might be a big clue as to the power he has on tap, 24/7/365/4/2.
All of that is true, and yet Trumps base doesn’t really want him to do anything with any of that power. They’re turning inward, going increasingly isolationist and are fed up of being the worlds policeman. I think they have point, but it sits at odds with large swathes of American foreign policy.
 
He was elected to be the Anti Christ. He has done that rather well. The establishment on both sides was about to be torched, he saved the GOP from itself. The icing on the cake is now watching the Dems melt down.
I’m having trouble with this point. On the surface it makes sense, but how did he save the GOP from itself exactly? I’m not disagreeing per se - I think I know what you mean - l would just appreciate a little more clarity.
 
But to remove the ambassador would send the message to our other ambassadors that they too will be removed of similar cables were to leak.

Basically we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t...
He hasn’t been removed, and there’s absolutely no evidence that he was responsible for the leak.

Some tw@t leaked it and the ambassador has done the right thing and resigned.

As May is using this as a political football to try and screw over Boris, even she should’ve realised that the ambassador is in a no win situation. Even with backing from Whitehall, he can’t do his job.

We had a similar in AFG, some officer dealing with the AFG government accidentally sent an email to the official explaining that he shouldn’t be trusted as we thought he was corrupt.
 

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