HK 416 & M4 carbine saga

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by winnfield, Jul 30, 2007.

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  1. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/#more

    Basically to sum up, 'western' engineers assumed that soldiers are reasonably rational and will look after their weapons. However, 'eastern'/Russian engineers assumed that all their soldiers were conscripted half-wits that would mistreat and forget everything they learnt about marksmanship and maintainance requirements; and so built their weapons to those standards.
     
  2. I like the way that everyone who hadn't been near an M16/M4 was calling for the SA80 to be binned and for us to re-equip with M4's, and it appears that that article shows that US soldiers were having the same problems as we had with SA80A1's with their M4's!

    The grass is always greener......
     
  3. Good comment Praetorian
     
  4. Indeed.

    All the L85A1/A2 naysayers seem to forget that the M16 series had a troubled start and considerably more of them were built before changes were made.

    Why exactly does the M16 series have that little thumb plunger on the side again?
     
  5. I think its a built in forward assist thingmywhat. Why on earth would it need one of them? :D

    M4 just does not compare with A2 for accuracy, on the 25m ranges at the COB none of the Septics could get anywhere near the 10-15mm groups some of our guys were producing, and most of the Spams were none too complimentary about its reliability.
     
  6. In terms of ergonomics, I think the M16 variants wins hands down. You can operate safety, firing mode and magazine catch with the fingers on your right hand without having to remove hand from the firing position.

    The problem with the M16 really is that the gas blowback fouls the firing chamber resulting in the need for more maintenance. The HK416 solves that by using a piston system - imo that is a good improvement on a tested design.

    Dun like bullpups...
     
  7. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    I trained on the Canadian variant, forward assist is designed in to provide an option when dirt builds up in a weapon.
    Could not comment on the M4 for accuracy, the Canadian variant is excellent, but I believe it has a higher spec chamber/barrel.
     
  8. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

  9. Galil doesn't look half as ally as an SA80A2 with a UGL!
     
  10. True, buts probably lighter and easyer to patrole with.

    the main advantadge AR15s (ether hk416, M16a4, M4a1 ext...) is that its more fun fireing ten rounds rapid from the left sholder. if you think one in eight is left handed, and there are 100,000 regs, 45,000 TA + 6,000 RM, its not a small factor.
     
  11. Were they using irons sights?

    Anyhow, the AR-15 series still appears to have some legs. Colt (official US supplier) has developed a gas piston system much like HK's so as in the past since the original M16 showed up, there might be another alteration. At the moment I think it's the M16's 3rd generation (A4), the M4 being a little older.

    One thing that the AR-15 has over it's competitors is that it's a great modular system - you can fit a lot of accessories namely due to the big civilian market in the US.
     
  12. Am I the only person here thats found that they shoot better with a bullpup? I think its a more stable firing position!

    P
     
  13. i do, but thats probably due to the fact thats all iv ever been issued with (being the young thing that i am), id most likly feel diferently if i had grown up with SLR.
     
  14. Well look out M4, C8, and 416! The SA80A2 is going to give it a run for its money with the introduction of the quad rail. At last the platform can take a surefire M600A, LLM, downgrip, and God knows what add-on!

    At last the weapon looks "Ally" :twisted:
     
  15. Thought the A2 rail had been around for a while? Surprised it doesn't seem to get used much. THEY all have their DeMarcos with all sorts of wotnots hanging off em but THEM-LITE just have standard A2s... :?

    A2 Picatinny rail