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Hitlers Englishmen

#1
#2
Reading the wiki link and that of other notable war time characters, am I alone in assuming that the miserable left have taken over wiki and bullshiote their own while playing down the right?
 
#3
The Freikorpsa was a unit of the Waffen SS and had very few who chose to join its ranks. As far as I recall, they did not fight as a unit and were merely useful for propaganda.

Upon more research whilst I was attached to 262/2 in Germany.... british nationals did serve with the Luftwaffe and German Army but not the SS (if they did, they changed natioanlity).

There is a book - if you remind me via PM I will ask my boss who previously lent me the book with the mentioned info (I have a really crap memory...).
 
#5
I faintly remember that there was British personnel fighting in German uniforms in WWII but they were anti-communists and were primarily fighting the Russians.
 
#6
obesa_cantavit said:
I faintly remember that there was British personnel fighting in German uniforms in WWII but they were anti-communists and were primarily fighting the Russians.
How old are you?




Sorry couldn't resist it!



I find the whole subject of people joining enemy units fascinating.

I've read a few books on 'Frikorps Danmark' too, and have heard that many more Danes served in the German Army and Luftwaffe than those who served in the SS, so I suppose it makes sense that there may have been Brits in other German units too.
 
#7
Tartan_Terrier said:
obesa_cantavit said:
I faintly remember that there was British personnel fighting in German uniforms in WWII but they were anti-communists and were primarily fighting the Russians.
How old are you?




Sorry couldn't resist it!



I find the whole subject of people joining enemy units fascinating.
...old enough to pick up magazines from the top shelf but young enough to still remember 'Victor' and 'Warlord'...
 
#8
obesa_cantavit said:
I faintly remember that there was British personnel fighting in German uniforms in WWII but they were anti-communists and were primarily fighting the Russians.
The majority of Brits recruited for the Freikorps or Legion of St George were from prison camps just after Dunkirk. I don't think they actually exceeded 50 for the whole of the war, many joined to get out of the prison camp (being rankers they did not have the privileges of officers under the Geneva Convention and were expected to work etc) and have better rations.

One thing agreed was that they would not have to fight their own countrymen. They were used mainly for propaganda and never deployed as a unit.

Interestingly, if you view photos of Normandy you will see Sikhs as POWs in German uniforms who were deployed in the fortress battalions! :wink:
 
#10
smoojalooge said:
i had heard of this before but what i never found out was happened to them after the war.
There was a documentary about them.

One was hanged. The rest did time and kept a low profile after release.
 
#11
Onetap said:
smoojalooge said:
i had heard of this before but what i never found out was happened to them after the war.
There was a documentary about them.

One was hanged. The rest did time and kept a low profile after release.
Not all of them. A few were considered to be such small fry that it was hardly worth prosecuting them, and one even got a medal since he was judged to have joined with the intent of escaping or sabotaging the unit. Many of the colonial members of the BFC escaped punishment too.
 
#12
The ones I want to know about are those on one of the extremely organised RSHA's list of "Senior brits that will help us when we invade - Certs". Unfortunately quite a few of these were on Winnie's list of "Good chaps to have on one's side during a crisis -Certs".

I imagine the debriefs in 1945/46 were QUITE entertaining...
 
#13
Does anyone know of anything about 10 Commando's 'British' troop, or other British units comprising of enemy aliens/foreigners?

I've read Ian Dear's book 'Ten Commando 1942-45' which had a chapter that dealt with it, and also recall reading about some Pioneer Corps units with German personnel.
 
#14
Britisches Freikorps was formed Jan 1943 as St. Georgs-Legion and was made up of British and Commonwealth volunteers. The forming of a British legion was first suggested by John Amery, son of Leopold Stennet Amery, Secretary of State for India in Winston Churchill's war cabinet, who also made a failed attempt to find volunteers for the unit.

Himmler became interested in the concept and a renewed attempt to find volunteers were made, but only approx 30 soldiers volunteered for this unit (including 3 Canadian, 3 Australians, 3 South Africans and 1 New Zealander).

It was renamed Britisches Freikorps Jan 1944 and attached to III SS Panzerkorps Feb 1945. The unit never saw any action, but a few men from this unit are believed to have fought in the battle of Berlin attached to 11. SS Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier Division Nordland.



The proclamation written by John Amery when the Legion of St. George, later renamed British Free Corps, was founded.



Insignia

The "British Free Corps" cuff title was authorized for this unit.

The collar tabs used in this unit shows three leopards.

An armshield with the Union Flag was also used.



Reference material on this unit

Richard Landwehr - Britisches Freikorps: British volunteers of the Waffen-SS 1943-1945

Eric Pleasants - Hitler's Bastard: Through Hell and Back in Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia

Ronald Seth - Jackals of the Reich: The story of the British Free Corps

Adrian Weale - Renegades: Hitler's Englishmen
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#15
Tartan_Terrier said:
I've read a few books on 'Frikorps Danmark' too, and have heard that many more Danes served in the German Army and Luftwaffe than those who served in the SS, so I suppose it makes sense that there may have been Brits in other German units too.
Have a look at "The French Foreign Legion" by Douglas Boyd. It lists numerous cases throughout the histories of the numerous formed-and-disbanded Foreign Legions where former individual comrades in arms and whole FFL formations found themselves pitted face to face.

Descriptions suggest that what happened next varied in each case.
 
#16
Is Richard Landwehr your real name, Sir? It does mean "Richard Territorial" in German.

Curious, really. A lot of the other western-recruited foreign legions ended up being practically wiped out at the bitter end in Berlin - the Nordland division (right-wing scandies and Norwegian followers of Quisling, basically) being exhibit A, but also a scratch battalion of Frogs from the Charlemagne division and assorted Russian and Baltic Hiwis. The poor fools, they believed all the BS when everyone else had given up.

But the St Georgers, true to the great tradition of British scum, seem to have spent their war drinking Schultheiss on the firm's time, walting it in their fancy SS kit and shagging German birds, before legging it when things got too hot for them. These days they'd have ASBOs and girlfriends called Kayleee.

Interestingly, the head Frog in Berlin not only survived the battle but dodged the Russians, returned to France and managed to avoid being strung up. Seems he's still around, too, as Antony Beevor seems to have interviewed him for his book on Berlin.
 
#17
you would join though -very smart uniform 3 lion collar patch...its no wonder they pulled the birds even though most were actually irish-south african and a few other colonists..not many true british amongst them.
i wonder how many would have joined if before the war started hitler opened a recruiting office in london...or how many would join up now.
offer me a tiger tank ..id join....
 
#18
Tartan_Terrier said:
Does anyone know of anything about 10 Commando's 'British' troop, or other British units comprising of enemy aliens/foreigners?

I've read Ian Dear's book 'Ten Commando 1942-45' which had a chapter that dealt with it, and also recall reading about some Pioneer Corps units with German personnel.
There was a book called 'Fighting Back' (?) written by an Austrian Jewish exile about his unit and experiences, etc Most of the 'aliens' were only allowed to join through the Pioneer Corps to start off with but I am sure that as far as they were concerned they were helping the war effort even if it meant felling logs.
 
#19
Random_Task said:
Escape-from-PPRuNe said:
Is Richard Landwehr your real name, Sir? It does mean "Richard Territorial" in German.

Curious, really. A lot of the other western-recruited foreign legions ended up being practically wiped out at the bitter end in Berlin - the Nordland division (right-wing scandies and Norwegian followers of Quisling, basically) being exhibit A, but also a scratch battalion of Frogs from the Charlemagne division and assorted Russian and Baltic Hiwis. The poor fools, they believed all the BS when everyone else had given up.

But the St Georgers, true to the great tradition of British scum, seem to have spent their war drinking Schultheiss on the firm's time, walting it intheir fancy SS kit and shagging German birds, before legging it when things got too hot for them. These days they'd have ASBOs and girlfriends called Kayleee.

Interestingly, the head Frog in Berlin not only survived the battle but dodged the Russians, returned to France and managed to avoid being strung up. Seems he's still around, too, as Antony Beevor seems to have interviewed him for his book on Berlin.
You make it sound like they'd fallen for a pyramid scheme scam.

The guys that defended Berlin (often to their deaths) did so because they believed.
Hiwi's are on record as being the vilest of the vile, especially when it came to the treatment of pow's, and civilians.
I think rather it was more that'd no option.

Volunteers fighting for the SS weren't looked on favourably by the Russkies, desertion carried the death penalty, and even if they made it home, prospects weren't exactly good.
 
#20
After the tide turned for the Germans in the east, I can empathise with the Danes who joined the Nasties to go and fight on the eastern front. Denmark is geographically positioned such that, had the final demarcation line been somewhat further west, they would have been stranded on the wrong side of it and would have suffered the same fate as Eastern Europe.
 

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