Historic effective ranges

#1
Was at the WW1 fort on Mont Vully in Switzerland last weekend, looking at the old emplacements, and one thing struck me on the info boards: in the WW1 period, the Swiss army considered the following effective ranges for infantry armed with the G11 "Langgewehr":

Single rifleman: 500m
Sektion (50 men): 1000m
Kompanie (200 men) or more: 1500m

Maxim MG11: 2500m

One inf emplacement for a reinforced company of 300 riflemen would have covered basically up to the lake, with the exception of a few bits of dead ground. At each emplacement are handy maps showing the areas covered by fire from the emplacement. Worth a visit. TBH, 300 riflemen in a fixed position who could all shoot reasonably well could put down 3000 rds per minute with no sweat, which might spoil your day somewhat.

There's also an 8-MG emplacement in hand-hewn artificial caves that we happened to miss:

Grottes de la Lamberta - Mont Vully - Position d'artillerie de la guerre 14-18 - YouTube

Might drag some pictures off Google for illustration.
 
#2
Part of the Réduit, designed to fire along the front of the position in enfilade:

 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#3
Have a copy of the 1909 Musketry Regulations, ie the one in date during WW1.

It gives Range tables for SMLE up to 2,800 yards. It states the extreme range at 3,760 yards!

That gives a fair area than can be covered.
 
#4
Battle of Mons 1914 (before Trench Warfare set in)

At 9:00 a.m., the first German infantry assault began, with the Germans attempting to force their way across the four bridges that crossed the canal at the salient. Four German battalions attacked the Nimy bridge, which was defended by a single company of the 4th Battalion, Royal Fusiliers as well as a machine gun section.

Advancing at first in close column – "parade ground" formation – the Germans made nearly unmissable targets for the well-trained British riflemen (who were evidently making hits at over 1,000 yards (910 m))[SUP][/SUP] and were mown down by rifle, machine gun, and artillery fire.[SUP][/SUP] Indeed, so heavy was the British rifle fire throughout the battle that the Germans thought they were facing batteries of machine guns.
 
#5
Was at the WW1 fort on Mont Vully in Switzerland last weekend, looking at the old emplacements, and one thing struck me on the info boards: in the WW1 period, the Swiss army considered the following effective ranges for infantry armed with the G11 "Langgewehr":

Single rifleman: 500m
Sektion (50 men): 1000m

Kompanie (200 men) or more: 1500m
I imagine they spent more than 1 day per year on the ranges then?
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
they were probably taught marksmanship instead of xbox
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
#8
I imagine they spent more than 1 day per year on the ranges then?
Even in the 80s, you'd spend the best part of 6 weeks building up to the annual week of Skill at Arms with that rifle. The best shots would then be into a summer of competition shooting.
 
#9
Even in the 80s, you'd spend the best part of 6 weeks building up to the annual week of Skill at Arms with that rifle. The best shots would then be into a summer of competition shooting.
We R. Sigs started in April befor the SAA in Germany before selection for Bisley.

Rumour was back then that the Gurkas started the week after the last shot went down range on the last AASAA.
 
#10
QoHldrs had an excellent shooting team and Duty Rumour was that they had no other duties and did no other training but shooting. I suspect a bit of exaggeration through jealousy but they certainly had a damned good team.
 
#11
For 84 and 86 I and the others on the Reg team spent at least 5 months a year on the ranges. Also as the CO was a shooter and the RQMS was the
Man in charge we had time, rounds and late returns to camp ment the RQ pre booked "late meals" . Never had a T bone steak before that, but two or three times a week we were better fed than the boxing/skiing/athletics teams.
 

CanteenCowboy

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Have a copy of the 1909 Musketry Regulations, ie the one in date during WW1.

It gives Range tables for SMLE up to 2,800 yards. It states the extreme range at 3,760 yards!

That gives a fair area than can be covered.
That was issued to you as a recruit, wasn't it?
 
D

Deleted 20555

Guest
#14
Don't they still have that 300m competition open to any previously issued Swiss Army rifle?
 
#15

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#16
#17
For 84 and 86 I and the others on the Reg team spent at least 5 months a year on the ranges. Also as the CO was a shooter and the RQMS was the
Man in charge we had time, rounds and late returns to camp ment the RQ pre booked "late meals" . Never had a T bone steak before that, but two or three times a week we were better fed than the boxing/skiing/athletics teams.
Our shooting team, likewise. Most units specialised in shooting plus one or more sports; it was the way for a CO to get noticed.

In the 80s our cross country team was practically full-time. Separate accommodation, separate breakfast at 10am, packed lunch at 4pm to fit around 2 training sessions a day. Rotating through the XC season and into athletics with marathon and road-racing tagged on. Not allowed to do orienteering because of the clash of fixtures and increased risk of injury. Often left in camp instead of deploying on exercise. Specialised posting in of the right PTI (eg Akabusi, Wade, Dupree), and athletic cooks and clerks. I had 5 years of that before the Bn released me for a first posting away.

Then there were the boxers/divers/parachute display team and so on.
 
#18
#19
It's almost as if we have had a few other things to occupy our time since about 2003.


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You're leaping to a conclusion I haven't made.

The intensity of operations over the last decade is historically most unusual. After 2014, who knows, perhaps there'll be a chance to do some old-style soldiering (SAA, sport, adv trg), or perhaps the siren call of Syria and Africa will keep the institution on the boil.
 

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