Hiroshima Day

Nobody was objecting to Japan being in the colonial empire game. Everybody else who was capable of doing so was also at it at the time.

What Japan was particularly condemned for was their abominable treatment of their colonial subjects and their atrocious behaviour in their treatment of POWs and civilian prisoners. This is a past that all too many Japanese have not had the courage to face up to and why so many people in the rest of the world see the Japanese of that era as lacking in any sense of personal morals or honour.
Absolutely. They witter on about peace and make sideways allusions towards the dropping of the A-Bombs being a virtual war crime without acknowledging in the slightest the fact that they were an arrogant and martial people who treated those they fought and conquered with abhorrent cruelty. I wonder how many people who fried in Hiroshima and Nagasaki had cheered at news of Nanking, Pearl Harbour and Singapore?
 

Bodenplatte

War Hero
Just three incidents . . . . .


25 December 1941, Hong Kong.

Several hours before the British surrendered on Christmas day at the end of the Battle of Hong Kong, Japanese soldiers entered St. Stephen's College, which was being used as a hospital on the front line at the time. The Japanese were met by two doctors, Black and Witney, who were marched away, and were later found dead and mutilated. They then burst into the wards and bayoneted a number of British, Canadian and Indian wounded soldiers who were incapable of hiding. The survivors and their nurses were imprisoned in two rooms upstairs. Later, a second wave of Japanese troops arrived after the fighting had moved further south, away from the school. They removed two Canadians from one of the rooms, and mutilated and killed them outside. Many of the nurses next door were then dragged off to be gang raped, and later found mutilated. The following morning, after the surrender, the Japanese ordered that all these bodies should be cremated just outside the hall. Other soldiers who had died in the defence of Stanley were burned with those killed in the massacre, making well over 100 altogether.


Singapore February 1942

As witnessed by Lt. F.T. Moore

14th/15th February 1942
During the early morning, the water supply was cut off, shelling and air activity became intense, some of the shells bursting in, and many near, the hospital. These appeared to be mainly enemy mortar bombs with an occasional shot from artillery. The enemy were drawing nearer and approaching the rear of the hospital from the Ayer Rajah Road area.

The number of incoming patients had lessened considerably and there was little or no traffic in the wards. During the morning routine work continued.

Japanese troops were seen for the first time at 13:40hrs, attacking towards the Sister’s quarters. Jap fighting troops were about to enter the hospital from the rear. Lt. Weston went from the Reception Room to the rear entrance with a WHITE FLAG in order to indicate the surrender of the hospital. The Japanese took no notice and Lt. Weston was bayoneted to death by the first Japanese to enter.

These troops now entered the hospital and ran amok on the ground floor.
They were very excitable and jumpy; neither pointing to the RED CROSS brassard nor shouting the word HOSPITAL had any effect.

The following events all commenced at approximately the same time:

a) One Japanese party entered the theatre block, (at this time operations were being prepared in the corridor between the Sister’s bunk and the main theatre, this being the best lit and most sheltered part of the block). The Japanese climbed into the corridor and at the same time a shot was fired through the window wounding Pte. Lewis RAMC in the arm. About ten Japanese came into the corridor and all the medical personnel help up their hands. Captain Smiley RAMC pointed to the RED CROSS brassards, but they appeared excited and took no notice. The Japs then motioned the staff to move along the corridor, which they did, when for no apparent reason the Japanese set upon the staff with bayonets.

Captain Smiley was lunged at with a bayonet but struck the blade aside and it hit his cigarette case in his left breast pocket. He was then again lunged at and wounded in the left groin, the previous thrust having cut his thumb and wounded the left forearm. He then pretended to be killed and pushed Private Sutton, who was unharmed, to the floor, calling to the others to keep quiet. The Japs then left the corridor.

After 15 or 20 minutes, Captain Smiley saw the CO coming along the corridor. Lt Rogers RAMC had been bayoneted twice through the back of the thorax and died at once. Captain Parkinson, Corporal McEwan and Private Lewis were also bayoneted to death. A patient, Corporal Holden of the 2nd Loyals, who was on the operating table, had also been bayoneted to death.


B) Another party of Japanese went into a ward and order the Nursing Orderlies and patients that could walk outside the hospital. In this ward two patients were bayoneted. Two Japanese went upstairs and gave similar instructions. These two must have been more humane than the others as they motioned patients on stretchers to stay behind.

Patients and personnel numbering around 200 were taken outside. Their hands tied behind their backs with a slip knot, one length of uncut cord being used for 4 or 5 men. Some of the patients could only just hobble. Some had only one arm; some seriously ill patients showed signs of distress, one or two collapsed and had to be revived. This party was marched by a circuitous route to the Old Quarters, where they were herded into rooms which varied for 9’ x 9’ to 10’ x 12’.

Here the men were literally jammed in and it took minutes to raise ones hands above ones head. Sitting down was out of the question and the men were forced to urinate against each other. During the night many men died and all suffered from thirst and the suffocating atmosphere. Water was promised but it never arrived.

When dawn came the Japs could be seen with cases of tinned fruit which they kept entirely to themselves. By the evening shelling was at its maximum and shells were bursting all around. One shell struck the roof of the Old Quarters injuring some of the prisoners and blowing open the door and windows. When this happened about eight men tried to escape. Some were successful but others got hit by machine gun fire. Prior to this the Japanese had been leading small groups out of sight and the ensuing yells and screams, coupled on one occasion with a Jap returning wiping blood from his bayonet, left little doubt as to the men’s fate. Except for the few who escaped, non of this party were seen alive again.

Captain Allardyce RAMC, who could speak a little Japanese, Corporal McDonough and Corporal Wilkins were taken off. Captain Allardyce was under the impression that he was being taken away as a hostage, or that the Japanese wanted some wounded attended to. However he was only seen again that night and for the last time the following morning at the servants quarters were the doomed 200 were imprisoned. It must be assumed that he and Corporal Wilkins suffered the same fate as the others. The body of Corporal McDonough was found outside the hospital and it appeared he had been killed by shrapnel.

C)A party of Japs came into the Reception Room shouting and threatening the staff and patients who were congregated there. Sergeant Sherrif was bayoneted and died; the remainder were similarly treated. Another party of Japanese went into Wards 16 and 17 causing injuries to the patients. They entered the kitchens of these two wards and killed Private Bruce, probably using a Tommy-gun. This party was also shown the RED CROSS brassards and replied by firing and throwing a hand grenade into the Sister’s bunk.

At 16:00hrs, 40 or 50 patients and staff were herded into the corridor and a guard placed over them. Later the guards went away and Captain Bartlett went out to investigate but saw no sign of the Japs; the party stayed there till dawn.

About 18:00hrs the Japs took a party, including Sergeant Anderson and about 20 others away. Their hands were tied and they were put in a drain, near the Sergeant Major’s quarters, where they remained all night, but were given cigarettes and raisins.

It is difficult to understand the reason for this barbaric attack on the hospital and investigations were carried out to find a possible explanation for it. Rumour has it that Indian Sappers and Miners digging a tunnel at the rear of the hospital had presumably made a run for it and passed through the hospital building.



Indonesia February 1942


On 12 February 1942 the royal yacht of Sarawak Vyner Brooke left Singapore just before the city fell to the Imperial Japanese Army. The ship carried many injured service personnel and 65 nurses of the Australian Army Nursing Service from the 2/13th Australian General Hospital, as well as civilian men, women and children. The ship was bombed by Japanese aircraft and sank. Two nurses were killed in the bombing; the rest were scattered among the rescue boats to wash up on different parts of Bangka Island. About 100 survivors reunited near Radji Beach at Bangka Island in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), including 22 of the original 65 nurses. Once it was discovered the Japanese held the island, an officer of the Vyner Brooke went to surrender the group to the authorities in Muntok. While he was away army matron Irene Melville Drummond, the most senior of the nurses, suggested the civilian women and children should leave for Muntok, which they did. The nurses stayed to care for the wounded. They set up a shelter with a large Red Cross sign on it.

At mid-morning the ship's officer returned with about 20 Japanese soldiers. They ordered all the wounded men capable of walking to travel around a headland. The nurses heard a quick succession of shots before the Japanese soldiers came back, sat down in front of the women and cleaned their bayonets and rifles. A Japanese officer ordered the remaining 22 nurses and one civilian woman to walk into the surf. A machine gun was set up on the beach and when the women were waist deep, they were machine-gunned. All but Bullwinkel were killed. Wounded soldiers left on stretchers were then bayoneted and killed.

Shot in the diaphragm, Bullwinkel lay motionless in the water until the sound of troops had disappeared. She crawled into the bush and lay unconscious for several days. When she awoke, she encountered Private Patrick Kingsley, a wounded British soldier from the ship who had survived being bayoneted by the Japanese soldiers. She dressed his wounds and her own, then 12 days later they surrendered to the Japanese. Kingsley died before reaching a POW camp, but Bullwinkel spent three years in one.

Bullwinkel survived the war and gave evidence of the massacre at the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal) in 1947.

Evidence of sexual assault[edit]
Recent evidence collected by historian Lynette Silver, broadcaster Tess Lawrence and biographer Barbara Angell, indicates that most of the nurses were raped before they were murdered. However, Bullwinkel was not permitted to speak about the rapes after the war, saying that she had been "gagged" by the Australian government. According to the Australian government, the perpetrators of the massacre remain unknown and "escaped any punishment for their crime".
 
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To your first point, well the 3rd reich was built on the racists elements on Jews.
Mir Yeshiva (Belarus) - Wikipedia
you completely missed the point as expected. Yes japan was wonderful to Jews

Too bad it wasnt as wonderful to Chinese, Burmese, Indians, Filipinos. Naurans, Ceylonese, Micronesians, Melanesians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Laotians, Papuans, etc......

Imperial Japan was not a role model democracy. Particularly so when stuck in a drawn out war being prolonged by outside aid.
Yeah so sad that outside aid (which included German Advisors and gear until the Tripartite act was signed)helped the Chinese fight off japanese aggression, so much better to be a vassal under the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere..... next up for Vivisection a filipino.....


But it was quite the role model during the Taisho era.
How did that era end again? oh right, he died almost powerless because the militarists in the Army demanded more power


But that was when the Japanese government tried to fit in with the other major powers but only to have to always curtail its interest in its region.
''Interest in the region'', aka Invade, Occupy and rape and murder for sport, take all the food and resources and let the surviving CivPop try to continue to live on vastly reduced means


The 1920s saw the end of the Japan-Great Britain alliance due to pressure from the US. It say Japan respecting the 9 power treaty while the Soviet Union was not even a member of the treaty setting up a puppet regime in Mongolia by 1925 and sending inserting a communists faction into the main Chinese political entity. And it saw the Taisho government heeding to US pressure on naval treaties that gave the US (a continental country full of metal and energy resources) a naval advantage over Japan (an island nation that lacks such natural resources). Maybe if the US had not pressured for an advantage on the Taisho government and pressuring the commonwealth and Great Britain to end the Japan-Great Britain alliance, maybe the policies of the Taisho government would have been more favorable by the Japanese military.
It wasnt just the USA, the Dominions (Canada and Australia) weren't so happy with the coziness to Japan. Canadian PM Meighen demanded the UK withdraw from the treaty

The Japanese population in the US mainland was about 126,000 in 1940
LibGuides: Japanese Americans in World War II: Historical Background.
So with about 110,000-120,00 being interned, that means nearly the whole population.
nearly is not all, stop wibbling

As for your last point, does it really matter? In some way, it could be worse if the top leader is not informed about human experimentation to begin with. With a top leader being informed, it provides the option to stop it at the top. Without it, it just goes as it does, with full disclosure unlikely to ever happen.
If it didn't matter why did you bring it up in the first place ? Japanese experiments were part of the national war effort and You seem to be very much an apologist and deflecting blame from Japan to the Yanks

Ive seen Wehraboos who make excuses for the nazis, this is new making excuses for japan
 
I read somewhere that Hitler thought he would get away with the concentration camps because in the U.S in some states you could apply to have disabled mentally ill etc euthanised.
Which ones and When? honestly cannot find an example of compulsory Euthanasia in the US.

Sterilization yes but not ending lives involuntarily
 
(...) Ive seen Wehraboos who make excuses for the nazis, this is new making excuses for japan
There's a faction of Japanese who've been at it for a while. Apparently the Japanese were minding their own business carving out an East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere when the US came along and, for no apparent reason, nuked them. It's so unfair!
 
thats a bit like saying Hitler wasn’t a bad bloke because he didn’t approve of cruelty to animals and didn’t like hunting.
A Candidate for the First Japa-boo?
 
There's a faction of Japanese who've been at it for a while. Apparently the Japanese were minding their own business carving out an East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere when the US came along and, for no apparent reason, nuked them. It's so unfair!
There was a old fellow from Witney by the name of Arthur Titherington who’d been captured by the Japanese at the fall of Singapore, so was their prisoner of war for three years. He campaigned for many of his later years for compensation for fellow PWs and most of all an apology from the Japanese government. Their view was that they had paid a minimal sum (£76) to each ex-PW in 1951 and the matter was closed. I can’t recall whether or not they eventually did apologise before Arthur died ten years ago.
 
There's a faction of Japanese who've been at it for a while. Apparently the Japanese were minding their own business carving out an East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere when the US came along and, for no apparent reason, nuked them. It's so unfair!
Twice. You missed out “twice”.
 
I think the Germany analogy gets over played.
If Japan didn't like being compared to the Axis they shouldn't have joined it...

By saying "another go" is to imply that the US had done nothing to provoke Japan with lines of credit to CKS, the relocation of the Pacific main fleet from the west coast to Hawaii
How dare the Americans deploy their fleet on their territory without Japanese permission. How dare the Yankees give the Chinese credit to defend themselves from Japanese Aggression....


the oil embargo
You mean stopping Japans ability to continuously invade neighbors by cutting the IJN fuel supply....? Even if you think FDR overstepped why Japan invades the DEI who were Neutral?

Rapacious greed of the IJA is the term you want

unwillingness to have FDR meet Konoye.
We saw with Karuso , and others incidents like assassinating Queen Min what Japanese ''Diplomacy'' was...


Even if Japan decided to yield to US demand to leave China, that would be a major project after Japan had spent much treasure and blood and just got the Wang regime established.
Again How dare the Yankees demand Japanese forces leave the chinese alone.


If the FDR administration was sincere, then they should have allowed a meeting to talk about Japanese withdrawal time table and phases and at what point could it be expected for the oil embargo to be removed.
Like how japan honored treaties with Vichy France in Indochina?

But nothing like that has been expressed from the US side. Instead the US had already started gearing up for war in the Pacific with things like the formation of the AVG. The US knew the Philippines was gonna get hit. They just assumed PH was not.
The US GHQ staff KNEW japan was the most logical potential enemy in Asia, not the Dutch or Burmese. Japanese Actions showed the planet their intentions
 
You do know that if you occasionally hit 'Enter', then your work becomes split into these handy chunks called 'paragraphs'?
His post was higher than the sea wall at Tarawa
 
Nobody was objecting to Japan being in the colonial empire game. Everybody else who was capable of doing so was also at it at the time.

What Japan was particularly condemned for was their abominable treatment of their colonial subjects and their atrocious behaviour in their treatment of POWs and civilian prisoners. This is a past that all too many Japanese have not had the courage to face up to and why so many people in the rest of the world see the Japanese of that era as lacking in any sense of personal morals or honour.
Japan made the Belgian King Leopold in the Congo look civilized
 

PFGEN

GCM
My old man decided to volunteer for service in the RAF rather than wait to be called up. He did his basic with around 60 others. During basic he was offered the chance to commission as an officer. He refused as he was more interested in radio and meteorology. Before joining he was a very capable morse tapper. He went the tech route as an airman.

The others all chose a commission and were sent out to the Far East. Not one returned. A few were killed in the normal course of warfare. The bulk of them died at the hands of the Japs as POWs. Many of them were people he knew. He spent the rest of his life avoiding buying anything from Japan. Did he or others we knew who had lost sons have any problems with a sudden increase in temperature in Nagasaki or Hiroshima. Like hell they did.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Just three incidents . . . . .


25 December 1941, Hong Kong.

Several hours before the British surrendered on Christmas day at the end of the Battle of Hong Kong, Japanese soldiers entered St. Stephen's College, which was being used as a hospital on the front line at the time. The Japanese were met by two doctors, Black and Witney, who were marched away, and were later found dead and mutilated. They then burst into the wards and bayoneted a number of British, Canadian and Indian wounded soldiers who were incapable of hiding. The survivors and their nurses were imprisoned in two rooms upstairs. Later, a second wave of Japanese troops arrived after the fighting had moved further south, away from the school. They removed two Canadians from one of the rooms, and mutilated and killed them outside. Many of the nurses next door were then dragged off to be gang raped, and later found mutilated. The following morning, after the surrender, the Japanese ordered that all these bodies should be cremated just outside the hall. Other soldiers who had died in the defence of Stanley were burned with those killed in the massacre, making well over 100 altogether.


Singapore February 1942

As witnessed by Lt. F.T. Moore

14th/15th February 1942
During the early morning, the water supply was cut off, shelling and air activity became intense, some of the shells bursting in, and many near, the hospital. These appeared to be mainly enemy mortar bombs with an occasional shot from artillery. The enemy were drawing nearer and approaching the rear of the hospital from the Ayer Rajah Road area.

The number of incoming patients had lessened considerably and there was little or no traffic in the wards. During the morning routine work continued.

Japanese troops were seen for the first time at 13:40hrs, attacking towards the Sister’s quarters. Jap fighting troops were about to enter the hospital from the rear. Lt. Weston went from the Reception Room to the rear entrance with a WHITE FLAG in order to indicate the surrender of the hospital. The Japanese took no notice and Lt. Weston was bayoneted to death by the first Japanese to enter.

These troops now entered the hospital and ran amok on the ground floor.
They were very excitable and jumpy; neither pointing to the RED CROSS brassard nor shouting the word HOSPITAL had any effect.

The following events all commenced at approximately the same time:

a) One Japanese party entered the theatre block, (at this time operations were being prepared in the corridor between the Sister’s bunk and the main theatre, this being the best lit and most sheltered part of the block). The Japanese climbed into the corridor and at the same time a shot was fired through the window wounding Pte. Lewis RAMC in the arm. About ten Japanese came into the corridor and all the medical personnel help up their hands. Captain Smiley RAMC pointed to the RED CROSS brassards, but they appeared excited and took no notice. The Japs then motioned the staff to move along the corridor, which they did, when for no apparent reason the Japanese set upon the staff with bayonets.

Captain Smiley was lunged at with a bayonet but struck the blade aside and it hit his cigarette case in his left breast pocket. He was then again lunged at and wounded in the left groin, the previous thrust having cut his thumb and wounded the left forearm. He then pretended to be killed and pushed Private Sutton, who was unharmed, to the floor, calling to the others to keep quiet. The Japs then left the corridor.

After 15 or 20 minutes, Captain Smiley saw the CO coming along the corridor. Lt Rogers RAMC had been bayoneted twice through the back of the thorax and died at once. Captain Parkinson, Corporal McEwan and Private Lewis were also bayoneted to death. A patient, Corporal Holden of the 2nd Loyals, who was on the operating table, had also been bayoneted to death.


B) Another party of Japanese went into a ward and order the Nursing Orderlies and patients that could walk outside the hospital. In this ward two patients were bayoneted. Two Japanese went upstairs and gave similar instructions. These two must have been more humane than the others as they motioned patients on stretchers to stay behind.

Patients and personnel numbering around 200 were taken outside. Their hands tied behind their backs with a slip knot, one length of uncut cord being used for 4 or 5 men. Some of the patients could only just hobble. Some had only one arm; some seriously ill patients showed signs of distress, one or two collapsed and had to be revived. This party was marched by a circuitous route to the Old Quarters, where they were herded into rooms which varied for 9’ x 9’ to 10’ x 12’.

Here the men were literally jammed in and it took minutes to raise ones hands above ones head. Sitting down was out of the question and the men were forced to urinate against each other. During the night many men died and all suffered from thirst and the suffocating atmosphere. Water was promised but it never arrived.

When dawn came the Japs could be seen with cases of tinned fruit which they kept entirely to themselves. By the evening shelling was at its maximum and shells were bursting all around. One shell struck the roof of the Old Quarters injuring some of the prisoners and blowing open the door and windows. When this happened about eight men tried to escape. Some were successful but others got hit by machine gun fire. Prior to this the Japanese had been leading small groups out of sight and the ensuing yells and screams, coupled on one occasion with a Jap returning wiping blood from his bayonet, left little doubt as to the men’s fate. Except for the few who escaped, non of this party were seen alive again.

Captain Allardyce RAMC, who could speak a little Japanese, Corporal McDonough and Corporal Wilkins were taken off. Captain Allardyce was under the impression that he was being taken away as a hostage, or that the Japanese wanted some wounded attended to. However he was only seen again that night and for the last time the following morning at the servants quarters were the doomed 200 were imprisoned. It must be assumed that he and Corporal Wilkins suffered the same fate as the others. The body of Corporal McDonough was found outside the hospital and it appeared he had been killed by shrapnel.

C)A party of Japs came into the Reception Room shouting and threatening the staff and patients who were congregated there. Sergeant Sherrif was bayoneted and died; the remainder were similarly treated. Another party of Japanese went into Wards 16 and 17 causing injuries to the patients. They entered the kitchens of these two wards and killed Private Bruce, probably using a Tommy-gun. This party was also shown the RED CROSS brassards and replied by firing and throwing a hand grenade into the Sister’s bunk.

At 16:00hrs, 40 or 50 patients and staff were herded into the corridor and a guard placed over them. Later the guards went away and Captain Bartlett went out to investigate but saw no sign of the Japs; the party stayed there till dawn.

About 18:00hrs the Japs took a party, including Sergeant Anderson and about 20 others away. Their hands were tied and they were put in a drain, near the Sergeant Major’s quarters, where they remained all night, but were given cigarettes and raisins.

It is difficult to understand the reason for this barbaric attack on the hospital and investigations were carried out to find a possible explanation for it. Rumour has it that Indian Sappers and Miners digging a tunnel at the rear of the hospital had presumably made a run for it and passed through the hospital building.



Indonesia February 1942


On 12 February 1942 the royal yacht of Sarawak Vyner Brooke left Singapore just before the city fell to the Imperial Japanese Army. The ship carried many injured service personnel and 65 nurses of the Australian Army Nursing Service from the 2/13th Australian General Hospital, as well as civilian men, women and children. The ship was bombed by Japanese aircraft and sank. Two nurses were killed in the bombing; the rest were scattered among the rescue boats to wash up on different parts of Bangka Island. About 100 survivors reunited near Radji Beach at Bangka Island in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), including 22 of the original 65 nurses. Once it was discovered the Japanese held the island, an officer of the Vyner Brooke went to surrender the group to the authorities in Muntok. While he was away army matron Irene Melville Drummond, the most senior of the nurses, suggested the civilian women and children should leave for Muntok, which they did. The nurses stayed to care for the wounded. They set up a shelter with a large Red Cross sign on it.

At mid-morning the ship's officer returned with about 20 Japanese soldiers. They ordered all the wounded men capable of walking to travel around a headland. The nurses heard a quick succession of shots before the Japanese soldiers came back, sat down in front of the women and cleaned their bayonets and rifles. A Japanese officer ordered the remaining 22 nurses and one civilian woman to walk into the surf. A machine gun was set up on the beach and when the women were waist deep, they were machine-gunned. All but Bullwinkel were killed. Wounded soldiers left on stretchers were then bayoneted and killed.

Shot in the diaphragm, Bullwinkel lay motionless in the water until the sound of troops had disappeared. She crawled into the bush and lay unconscious for several days. When she awoke, she encountered Private Patrick Kingsley, a wounded British soldier from the ship who had survived being bayoneted by the Japanese soldiers. She dressed his wounds and her own, then 12 days later they surrendered to the Japanese. Kingsley died before reaching a POW camp, but Bullwinkel spent three years in one.

Bullwinkel survived the war and gave evidence of the massacre at the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal) in 1947.

Evidence of sexual assault[edit]
Recent evidence collected by historian Lynette Silver, broadcaster Tess Lawrence and biographer Barbara Angell, indicates that most of the nurses were raped before they were murdered. However, Bullwinkel was not permitted to speak about the rapes after the war, saying that she had been "gagged" by the Australian government. According to the Australian government, the perpetrators of the massacre remain unknown and "escaped any punishment for their crime".
They should have burnt Japan to ashes for their crimes.
 
The Shimazu Uji of Satsuma made Okinawa a vassal state in 1609...
By that reasoning, Korea has been part of China since the 11th century. Of course, it hasn't been, since a vassal state is by definition a separate one.

Manchuria, on the other hand, was an integral part of the Qing Empire.
 

Bodenplatte

War Hero
They should have burnt Japan to ashes for their crimes.
You can't say that Curtis LeMay and his 20th Air Force didn't have a good go. Flying from Saipan, the great B-29 Fire Raid on Tokyo on 9 March 1945 is often referenced as being more deadly than the nuclear bombings; so it was, yet it was only the first of a series of 64 similar raids on Tokyo and several other cities using napalm and WP. These raids, delivered over just 5 months, flattened a greater area than the total area destroyed in all German cities over the entire war. One of the reasons for selecting Hiroshima for the first A-Bomb was that it had not previously been heavily bombed, and the Americans wanted to be able to gauge the effectiveness of the nuclear weapon on a target that had not already been largely destroyed.
 

Bodenplatte

War Hero
There was a old fellow from Witney by the name of Arthur Titherington who’d been captured by the Japanese at the fall of Singapore, so was their prisoner of war for three years.
I had an acquaintance who went into Jap captivity on the very first day of the Jap war. Alf "Smudge" Smith who was a Leading Stoker on a Yangtse River Gunboat HMS Peterel. On 8 December (it was still 7 December at Pearl, across the Date Line) the Jap cruiser Idzumo called upon Peterel's skipper to surrender (both vessels were alongside in the Whangpoo River in Shanghai). Lt Polkinghorn, a Kiwi, threw the Jap boarding party off his boat, and despite only being armed with Lewis guns he opened fire on the 8-inch cruiser. According to Alf, the Jap Navy treated Peterel's survivors well, and with respect, visiting the wounded in hospital and bringing ciggies etc. The fact that Idzumo was British-built seemed to have an effect too - the IJN followed many British naval traditions, and were fond of their ship.
It was only as the survivors passed out of IJN hands, into Army hands and down the PoW chain that the ill-treatment started for nearly four years.
 
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You can't say that Curtis LeMay and his 20th Air Force didn't have a good go. Flying from Saipan, the great B-29 Fire Raid on Tokyo on 9 March 1945 is often referenced as being more deadly than the nuclear bombings; so it was, yet it was only the first of a series of 64 similar raids on Tokyo and several other cities using napalm and WP. These raids, delivered over just 5 months, flattened a greater area than the total area destroyed in all German cities over the entire war. One of the reasons for selecting Hiroshima for the first A-Bomb was that it had not previously been heavily bombed, and the Americans wanted to be able to gauge the effectiveness of the nuclear weapon on a target that had not already been largely destroyed.
B-29 was for winners.
 
It was only as the survivors passed out of IJN hands, into Army hands and down the PoW chain that the ill-treatment started for nearly four years.
Similar stories from US Submariners

The Crew of the Tang Drum** were sunk close in by Sub chasers survivors taken aboard beaten and mistreated. Handed over to another vessel and treatment changed to "correct" - the enquiry as to why received the answer (and I paraphrase) Because the sub chaser was not IJN.

Once landed and handed over to the Army again ill treatment promptly resumed.

IIRC they found themselves at one of the secret research facilities, though sufficiently close to the end of the war that there wasn't time to murder them




** I may be mixing up my US submarines - but it was one of the well known ones Edit - i had
 
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The Imperial Japanese Navy finished WWII with its integrity intact and able to hold its head high.
Yes, it had a few wrong uns, but by and large behaved in accordance with civilised norms and respected the laws of war.
when Hirohito issued a decree in 1943 that it was to cease such proper behaviour and execute in future all enemy POWs that fell into its hands, rather than expend effort rescuing them, it politely ignored it.
The few Navy run POW camps while harsh, where a veritable paradise compared to the Army run ones, the spirit of Bushido didn’t run deep in tbe IJN. The systematic killing and abuse of prisoners in Army run camps wasn’t their thing. There are many examples of Navy staff putting their hands in their own pockets to do small acts of kindness to prisoners, enough to significantly improve the survival chances of a POW in their hands.

At wars end, unlike the other services, the IJN was allowed to retain its Rising Sun flags, battle ensigns, uniforms, music and traditions, the only thing it was required to do was stop using the Katana as its Officers sword and return to the western pattern sabre , which it was quite happy to do.

Much of the difference is down to the cultures the respective services adopted when set up as professional arms in the late 18c.
The Army modeled itself on the Prussian Army, complete with its culture of brutal, unbending discipline, the Navy modelled itself on the Royal Navy, right down to adopting curry, and Nelson is revered as a God.

Captain Haras book is an exceptional insight into the IJN in WWII.

 
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merchantman

War Hero
Similar stories from US Submariners

The Crew of the Drum** were sunk close in by Sub chasers survivors taken aboard beaten and mistreated. Handed over to another vessel and treatment changed to "correct" - the enquiry as to why received the answer (and I paraphrase) Because the sub chasers are Army vessels we are navy.

Once landed and handed over to the Army again ill treatment promptly resumed.

IIRC they found themselves at one of the secret research facilities, though sufficiently close to the end of the war that there wasn't time to murder them




** I may be mixing up my US submarines - but it was one of the well known ones
The Merchant Navy did not fare so well at the hands of the IJN, from wiki:

In the Far East it was not at all unusual for merchant seamen who survived ships which had been sunk by submarines of the Imperial Japanese Navy to be machine-gunned in the water, some Japanese submarines such as I-37 made a practice of this. See SS British Chivalry for the fate of the crew although even after a determined effort to kill survivors 38 seamen managed to stay alive for 37 more days in open boats until they were rescued.[101] I-37 did the same after sinking the MV.Sutlej and SSAscot".[102] Other examples were the fate of the crew of SS Tjisalak.[103][104]


On other occasions in the Far East, survivors were brought aboard the Japanese submarine or warship to be shot or beheaded by sword. Following the sinking of the British merchant ship Behar in March 1944, prisoners were taken by the Japanese Navy who beheaded 69 of them in what became known as the Behar massacre.[105]

Several trials were held post-war and any of the Japanese Naval officers who had survived were tried for their crimes.
 
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