Hiroshima Day

75th anniversary. For those of a nervous disposition, avoid the BBC website - all about the horrors inflicted on innocent little Japan, and if they could work Donald Trump into the narrative, they would... maybe he had an uncle sweeping the mess of the 509th Composite Group? That would be good enough.
 
Two days later, a million Ivans poured into Manchuria and smashed the Japanese Kwangtung army.

My granddad, a rodney in the Kwangtung army was there. He obviously didn't go for all that ritual suicide nonsense because he surrendered and spent five years in a Siberian gulag.

I've read that it was the Russian invasion and the destruction of the Kwangtung army that was the real catalyst for the Japanese surrender; not so much the atom bombs.

 
Two days later, a million Ivans poured into Manchuria and smashed the Japanese Kwangtung army.

My granddad, a rodney in the Kwangtung army was there. He obviously didn't go for all that ritual suicide nonsense because he surrendered and spent five years in a Siberian gulag.

I've read that it was the Russian invasion and the destruction of the Kwangtung army that was the real catalyst for the Japanese surrender; not so much the atom bombs.

I've read that, too, in "information" leaflets issued when a Soviet warship visited Portsmouth. Interesting that the Soviets waited so long before pitching in on the Allies' side in the Far East.......
 
Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved hundreds of thousands of lives at least. The cost in lives - Allied and Japanese - of an invasion would have been vast. After the war in Europe, the thought that the Allies would sacrifice more lives rather than use the power of the atomic bomb on the Japanese population is naive in the extreme. I for one would not have wanted to be on a Wave 1 Landing Craft heading for the shores of mainland Japan in 1945. We should all be grateful that Harry S Truman (a man who was not expecting to be President) had the courage to make the decision and to take on the historical burden of being the man who made that order.
 
Didn’t Hirohito say it was the bombs specifically that made up his mind to surrender? Which was followed by an attempted coup of some sort by military diehards to keep the war going or at least hold out for better terms?
I’m only vaguely remembering this from a documentary so happy to be corrected!
 
Two days later, a million Ivans poured into Manchuria and smashed the Japanese Kwangtung army.
I think it was a combination of that, the nukes, no access to oil and the fact that most of Japan's cities/industry had been torched by conventional bombing that led the Emperor to make the understatement of the 20th century:

"the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage"​
 
I posted this in the snowflake outrage thread but this one seems more suited, this is my lefty mates take on it
Screenshot_20200806-095248_Facebook.jpg


I commented asking if he thinks a ground invasion of Japan would have been preferable considering the total destruction of northern Europe and associated civilian casualties dislodging the Nazis the previous year. He came back with "Look mate, I'm not arguing all day about this, it was murder and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a psychopath who loves f**king war".
 
Didn’t Hirohito say it was the bombs specifically that made up his mind to surrender? Which was followed by an attempted coup of some sort by military diehards to keep the war going or at least hold out for better terms?
I’m only vaguely remembering this from a documentary so happy to be corrected!
The article I posted reckons it was easier for the Japanese ego to say "a new miracle wonder weapon has defeated us" than to admit it was the smelly Russians.
 

anglo

LE
I think it was a combination of that, the nukes, no access to oil and the fact that most of Japan's cities/industry had been torched by conventional bombing that led the Emperor to make the understatement of the 20th century:

"the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage"​
"the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage,and we must endure the unendurable"
 

Chef

LE
Two days later, a million Ivans poured into Manchuria and smashed the Japanese Kwangtung army.

My granddad, a rodney in the Kwangtung army was there. He obviously didn't go for all that ritual suicide nonsense because he surrendered and spent five years in a Siberian gulag.

I've read that it was the Russian invasion and the destruction of the Kwangtung army that was the real catalyst for the Japanese surrender; not so much the atom bombs.

The question at the end of the video clip is interesting. Roughly that the Russians were already massed along the border of Manchuria and could have gone in earlier, thus ending the war earlier. Even the lecturer acknowledges that the invasion was brought forward after the bomb went off.

So at the very least it could be claimed that the bomb was the spark that set the Russians rolling. They could, for instance, have waited until a conventional invasion by the western allies before starting their ops.

I believe they halted their western advance in 1944 while the Germans destroyed Warsaw. That resulted in the useful. for the Russians, elimination of many potential future revolutionaries.

In the case of the invasion of Japan, why not let the western allies spend troops, money, and resources invading from the other end of the area? Then this unknown weapon appears on the scene and the Russians get in on the act pronto.

The lecturer's previous position may explain why he is less ambivalent in his assessment:

'Wilson was a senior fellow at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies.'
 
I posted this in the snowflake outrage thread but this one seems more suited, this is my lefty mates take on it View attachment 494934

I commented asking if he thinks a ground invasion of Japan would have been preferable considering the total destruction of northern Europe and associated civilian casualties dislodging the Nazis the previous year. He came back with "Look mate, I'm not arguing all day about this, it was murder and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a psychopath who loves f**king war".
On the plus side, we won WW2, which gives this idiot the opportunity to be so terminally stupid. If we had not, he'd be on a cattle truck somewhere or lined up on the side of a road looking into the ditch he'd just dug.
 
I'm surprised that we haven't had the usual 'The peace loving Japanese were just sitting there minding their own business when those war-mongering Americans came and dropped Atom bombs on them' down here that we usually get at this time of year from Brighton & Hove Rent-a-Cause.
 
I for one would not have wanted to be on a Wave 1 Landing Craft heading for the shores of mainland Japan in 1945.
My father was on a troop ship en-route to Korea. Announcement came over the tannoy that there had been a truce agreed and they would be diverting to Hong Kong.

Public attitude on the ship was the gung-ho "bugger, we wanted to kick the commies arses". Private attitude was "Holy shit, thank feck for that".

He came back to England and I was born the following year. My brother and two sisters were all born nine months after he came back from an overseas vacation.
 

merchantman

War Hero
The Russians had agreed to enter the war against Japan 3 months after the end of the war in Europe at the Tehran conference in 1943. They did so on 8 August 1945. There was a great deal of concern regarding Russian plans for expansion in the Far East. The bomb, IMHO, had to be dropped not only to end the war quickly but also to show the Russians, look at what we have, overstep the line and you could be next.
 
These beautiful weapons launched the world in which we live. If only we had them in 1918.
 
I think it is very insensitive to commemorate Hiroshima on such a nice sunny day.

[Snowflake filter off]
 
Just a reminder of the Potsdam declaration which the Japanese considered and rejected:

The Potsdam Declaration, or the Proclamation Defining Terms for Japanese Surrender, was a statement that called for the surrender of all Japanese armed forces during World War II. On July 26, 1945, United States President Harry S. Truman, United Kingdom Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and Chairman of China Chiang Kai-shek issued the document, which outlined the terms of surrender for the Empire of Japan, as agreed upon at the Potsdam Conference. The ultimatum stated that, if Japan did not surrender, it would face "prompt and utter destruction. (Wikipedia)
 
I'm surprised that we haven't had the usual 'The peace loving Japanese were just sitting there minding their own business when those war-mongering Americans came and dropped Atom bombs on them' down here that we usually get at this time of year from Brighton & Hove Rent-a-Cause.
I had it patiently explained to me that nuking the Japs was racist because they were Asians and we never nuked the Germans "coz they is white".

Sometimes wibble is not worthy of refutation.
 

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