Hire the Private sector to fix the Public sector?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by beemer007, Apr 27, 2010.

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  1. Would this work in a pragmatic way? economically & strategically ?

    "Many politicians have tried to reform the Civil Service, but each time it has seen them off. In fact, the self-interest and basic lack of competence within Whitehall is one of the reasons why the country is in such a financial hole".

    Consider: Sir Terry Leahy, of Tesco, Sir Stuart Rose, of Marks & Spencer

    However would labour's Sir Alan's Sugar manage the partnership?


    suggestions & views from the floor
  2. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    they wouldnt touch it with a barge pole because they would not have the freedom of action to do as they needed, too many ground rules and too much interference from a politicians and vested interests

    The trick would be to take the public sector out of the equation altogether and let the private sector have free reign
  3. Some years ago HM Prison Service had a Private Sector appointment as the Director General.

    He was some thing big from the TV industry!!!

    I met him once at my establishment's fate, I was wearing my best uniform (like No2's but in black), he throught I was a fireman, I throught the 'HMP SHOULDER TITLES' were a clue I was not.

    He was sacked/dismissed/resigned in 1996, I remember the day well, I was being interviewed without coffee yet again.
  4. mysteron

    mysteron LE Book Reviewer

    Getting someone from the private swector to run a public sector office is a great idea. But..... as mentioned previously, unless you render the unions useless and give free reign without expectation of results within 6 - 12 months of appointment; it is doomed to failure.

    Fore the reasons given above - I say it won't work.

    Add to this the outrage when a Daily Mail middle manager realises that senior managers get paid some real money to do ther jobs: like £250k + bonuses on milestones + stock options = up to and exceeding £600k. Just simply not palatable to the voting public, politicians and to the civil service who will resist this like buggery.
  5. Soooooooooooo General Stuart rose to reform the army?
    though not :evil:

    Railtrack was such a fine success :oops:

    Business is not the b end of all I would argue trying to run the NHS like a business is half the problem.
    internal market for cas "I'm sorry you'used up this months allocation of fast air how about some diversity training."

    fine if the political parties were full of business people there not there full of politicos who think business is the answer to every problem its not.
  6. This would be the private sector that has made such a success of our banks and economy?

    I was unfortunate enough to be working for the NHS when this was being tried in the 90's, and remember the succession of second-rate MBA's who arrived in dribs and drabs into management, and what an unholy nightmare they were to deal with. The thing to remember is that the wages paid in the public sector are not high enough to attract anybody who is actually effective. Simple market forces means that it's only the ones who couldn't make it in the real world that were attracted to work as a directorate manager in the NHS. They then had to have the absolute basics explained to them, and couldn't figure out when they were being told the truth, and when the wool was being pulled over their eyes. Their bottom line was to save on their budget, and to hell with standards of care.

    Whose idea was it, for example, to fire all the NHS cleaners and outsource to SERCO et al? What an improvement in cleaning services that was! Not to mention PFI (profiting from illness), where one hospital I was in found it cheaper to call external engineers to service equipment than be billed by the "in-house" engineers run by the PFI company (who had been transferred from the NHS into it).

    The union ruining it argument didn't stand up there, as the NHS unions are as a rule not strong enough to pull the skin off a rice pudding. (The sticking point and vested interests against any realistic reform in the NHS are not Unions but Doctors, but that's a different argument for another thread - or forum!)
  7. It's really amazing how many people are still trotting this one out after so long. People, a classic definition of insanity is to keep trying the same failed strategy, expecting different results.

    I'd go so far as to say that in the parts of the public sector I've had the opportunity to witness up close, it was private sector involvement that broke it. Inappropriate methods applied in pursuit of wrongly identified goals, all the while missing the point of 'service first'.
  8. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    The problem with the examples you give isnt the private sector, its the half hearted public/private blend that takes the worse of both worlds and makes it more than the sum of its meager parts. You cant have half measures, either wholly public sector or wholly private sector.

    Thats why I said it will never work because we haven't got the bottle to realise that there are very few things that should be done by an inefficient public sector with half arrsed 'private sector innovation'

    I have seen both at multiple levels and neither is perfect but in the round, the private sector generally does its sh1t better and you cant argue with the consistent track record of private sector competition and innovation driving costs down
  9. The private sector drives costs down?

    In 2005, 21.2 percent of U.S. national income accrued to just 1 percent of earners.

    Contrast 1968, when the CEO of General Motors took home, in pay and benefits, about sixty-six times the amount paid to a typical GM worker. Today the CEO of Wal-Mart earns nine hundred times the wages of his average employee. Indeed, the wealth of the Wal-Mart founder’s family in 2005 was estimated at about the same ($90 billion) as that of the bottom 40 percent of the U.S. population: 120 million people.

    American Kleptocracy

    By William J. Astore
  10. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    so what, seriously, what has that got to do with the argument.

    The private sector has a track record of driving costs down, innovating and increasing choice. Yes you might be able to find specific examples where these have not happened but the general principle is sound.
  11. Wrong. The private sector has a record of increasing profits for it's shareholders/owners, or going bust. I've seen as much waste and stupid practices in the private sector I work in now as I ever saw in the NHS, the only difference is that the costs are passed on to the customer in different ways in the private sector. In the NHS, the waste was in a lot of ways more accountable.

    Regarding the NHS, the introduction of the "internal market", whilst opening some peoples eyes to the true costs of some items, also introduced a layer of bureaucracy into the system that wasn't there before, and resulted in a lot of hospitals going down what I called the Ford Escort route. If you had something routine (like a Ford Escort), it could be treated anywhere at a profit, buy turn up needing a Rolls Royce sorted out - too expensive, we don't do that! I saw it time after time.

    I now work in the private sector, and to be honest, I see less desire to do things for the good of the company and a whole lot less goodwill than I saw in the NHS. This is the thing that the private sector doesn't realise keeps the public sector running, and the introduction of the private sector ethos will ruin. I was prepared to do 60 hour weeks for 37 hours money or the good of patients. I'm buggered if I'm working like that to keep some shareholders happy.
  12. I'd like that old Badger bird to come in and sort out the spineless management in our place. They're all self serving twunks who deserve sweet FA and spend their days going through the motions of work, but achieving nothing. I guarantee our IT department would run far better without their interfering ways!

    In a recent service review, the second in two years which saw both business analysts 'leave at short notice' was supposed to put things right. We all got put at risk of redundancy, had to reapply for our jobs and now have to serve 6 months probation again, even though some people have been there for up to 9 years!!!

    The only person to escape the whole process was the Service Manager who is an incompetent fool who tries to micro manage everything instead of just giving us the work and letting us get on with it.

    Even after the service review and being promised the salaries were revised under the current guidelines, it wasn't until after we'd been appointed to our new positions that they told us otherwise and there 'may be some changes to salary scales'.

    Fekkin muppets the lot of them!
  13. msr

    msr LE

    I think you'll find it is the private sector which pays the taxes which keeps the entire public sector running.

    The best way to reduce public sector waste is to slash the size of it and reduce it to the key essentials that the private sector cannot provide.


  14. My company has been employed as a consultant to deliver Primary School places across the borough of a "South Eastern Council" by extending existing building stock.

    The level of monetary waste and monumental f ucking incompetence we have picked the scab off so far since taking over this poison chalice is shaking this particular council to he core, insofar as projected costs using it's own archaic processes and "public sector to the core" workforce is at least one third higher than ours. This isn't taking into account that there is a very real fear at leat two of the schemes (required as a statutory obligation on the council) are at high risk of not getting on site due to schoolboy errors both with the planning applications (to their own f ucking planners) and with the buildability of the projects within budget....

    People get jobs in the public sector and hide there forever, because they weren't f ucking good enough t cut the mustard in the private sector. fact.
  15. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    You're not a mover, nor a shaker, you will always be a follower who hangs on others coat tails. Nothing wrong with that, just don't blame everyone else for it.