Hill walking stupidity

Yeah I think the issue is you're either solving the problem for being conscious or unconscious, I agree that if you're in a position to press a button they're as good as each other, or at the very least, the PLB is no worse and perhaps better. Based on the simplicity of the tech involved to get a help me message out and the fact that as you say it's geared up for DF'ing as well, mine in the absence of a good GPS fix is probably fecked on that front.

Re: Flares, I wasn't aware of such things. That said, I can't imagine I can air travel with them so moot for most of the stuff I get upto, horses, courses etc.
No system is perfect, and all of it is just a back up in case I f**k up. Staying out of trouble is far more important and far more enjoyable. Map and compass old fashioned GPS (long battery life) and the skills to use them, wet kit, warm kit, a bit of scoff, plenty of water, and good boots and poles (if the going is gnarly or V. steep). And one of those orange emergency shelters that fold up small (great for lunching in when it's pissing down!). I have never had to use PLB or Flares yet on the hills ............

Flares are great, but a pain in the arse to get rid of when they are out of date, and like you said they can't be packed for air travel - but they are hard to beat for pinpointing casualties. There are alternatives though.......

Ocean Signal Flare

Odeo Flare

I don't have one, as I still have to have pyrotechnic flares for the boat (COLREGs and all that), but when the regulations change I will seriously consider getting one as alternative to hand held flares.
 
No system is perfect, and all of it is just a back up in case I f**k up. Staying out of trouble is far more important and far more enjoyable. Map and compass old fashioned GPS (long battery life) and the skills to use them, wet kit, warm kit, a bit of scoff, plenty of water, and good boots and poles (if the going is gnarly or V. steep). And one of those orange emergency shelters that fold up small (great for lunching in when it's pissing down!). I have never had to use PLB or Flares yet on the hills ............

Flares are great, but a pain in the arse to get rid of when they are out of date, and like you said they can't be packed for air travel - but they are hard to beat for pinpointing casualties. There are alternatives though.......

Ocean Signal Flare

Odeo Flare

I don't have one, as I still have to have pyrotechnic flares for the boat (COLREGs and all that), but when the regulations change I will seriously consider getting one as alternative to hand held flares.
Right gotcha, yeah I think at Sea your lateral line of sight visibility is obviously less of a problem than being with broken ankle in a gully. Then again, it's all about relative risk, apart from exposure I am probably going to get found on land, at sea, you're still likely to be moving from fix to fix. and I have to remind myself I am trying to manage a relative risk of being up on a mountain and hurt *so* badly I can't make it back to anything resembling help.

Below not a picture of 2pi out running:

bleg1-cl1-jkt-pkts.jpg
 
Right gotcha, yeah I think at Sea your lateral line of sight visibility is obviously less of a problem than being with broken ankle in a gully. Then again, it's all about relative risk, apart from exposure I am probably going to get found on land, at sea, you're still likely to be moving from fix to fix. and I have to remind myself I am trying to manage a relative risk of being up on a mountain and hurt *so* badly I can't make it back to anything resembling help.

Below not a picture of 2pi out running:

View attachment 358027
You are right, it can be less of a problem (visibility in a flat sea, with the right conditions can be pretty good), however with the "wrong" sea conditions - 3-4+ metre seas (in fact anything bigger than 0.5m can make it difficult), rain/snow/hail and windblown spray - looking for a small football (a person's head) in the water can be a challenge akin to finding a walker/runner fallen in a ravine. Hence the mini flares which go up and out and the PLB which the SAR unit can DF on. Miniflares only have a limited range and do get pretty effected by wind, so aren't great for pinpointing, but are pretty good for attracting attention - they also make a fairly sharp bang as they launch. ( on the boat it's proper Parachute flares which can be seen from a long way!)

As it happens, round our way a lot of casualties are on rock or at the bottom of cliffs so much like finding lost walkers in the mountains.

But you're right about movement, Tide and wind can push people along at a fair lick - at least fallen walkers often stay still so, easier to get a fix.

And as you say (and has been pointed out before by others), It's all moot if I can self extract (Albeit slowly and carefully/painfully), which is better than sitting down and melting like a snowflake. Far less embarrassing.......

I once crawled 5 hrs out of a cave with a broken thumb (having trodden on my own thumb.... don't ask.... fellow Troglodytes will understand how than can happen.....) rather than call the Cave rescue team that I was a member of............
 
Not exactly hill-walking, but a large rock was involved. I watched a repeat episode of "Saving Lives at Sea" recently when a couple of 17-year old Welsh lads clambered up a seaside rock and failed to notice that the tide was coming in and separating them from the the nearest dry bit of rocky land.

As the tide rose, observers ashore became concerned that it was only a matter of time before the pair finished up in the rocky water, with a significant swell making survival iffy. The RNLI scrambled an inshore rescue boat and managed to extract them safely after a tricky manoeuvre.

In the RIB, the first words of one of the pair were: "You've just saved my life." I was impressed. But not for long.

As the boat took them to a nearby sandy beach, the pair went quiet. It transpired that they were concerned that they might have to get their designer trainers wet getting ashore......and the RNLI crew actually carried them to the dry sand on piggy back.

From near-death experience to surreal and selfish stupidity in seconds on the part of the idiot pair.
 
You are right, it can be less of a problem (visibility in a flat sea, with the right conditions can be pretty good), however with the "wrong" sea conditions - 3-4+ metre seas (in fact anything bigger than 0.5m can make it difficult), rain/snow/hail and windblown spray - looking for a small football (a person's head) in the water can be a challenge akin to finding a walker/runner fallen in a ravine. Hence the mini flares which go up and out and the PLB which the SAR unit can DF on. Miniflares only have a limited range and do get pretty effected by wind, so aren't great for pinpointing, but are pretty good for attracting attention - they also make a fairly sharp bang as they launch. ( on the boat it's proper Parachute flares which can be seen from a long way!)

As it happens, round our way a lot of casualties are on rock or at the bottom of cliffs so much like finding lost walkers in the mountains.

But you're right about movement, Tide and wind can push people along at a fair lick - at least fallen walkers often stay still so, easier to get a fix.

And as you say (and has been pointed out before by others), It's all moot if I can self extract (Albeit slowly and carefully/painfully), which is better than sitting down and melting like a snowflake. Far less embarrassing.......

I once crawled 5 hrs out of a cave with a broken thumb (having trodden on my own thumb.... don't ask.... fellow Troglodytes will understand how than can happen.....) rather than call the Cave rescue team that I was a member of............
Not sure if I should give that a like, an informative or a smiley face :)
 
The RNLI are incredible and as an almost all volunteer force as well.

Although giving a party boat a tow to the nearest pier........200 souls saved! Did always give us a chuckle :)

Yes, so walking. Yeah. Flares. I can totally justify buying some of those....
 

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Kit Reviewer

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Kit Reviewer
If the RNLI had a pound for every person who thinks they are "more than capable of......." and "I know what to do when....." and "I was only going for a short swim/paddle/sail so didn't think I would need......" then we wouldn't need to do any fundraising.

I cannot count the number of people who I have pulled out of the water (In the Thames and the sea) who thought that they (or even did) knew what they were doing. Whatever the thoughts on hill walking (and there are some idiots out there) and how dangerous the British Hills are (or aren't), The waters in and around the UK are cold, busy and unpredictable. They can be dangerous, even if you "know them well".

I also think you missed one of the key points - a significant number of fast moving vessels that cannot see you is one of the biggest dangers in the Thames, however strong a swimmer you are, you cannot out swim a working boat at full chat. If you think it's not dangerous to swim in a working area, try crawling across the M40 and see how far you get before you are run over.

I am sure you think you know the Thames, and I am sure you think I am being over dramatic, but I am glad you made the decision not to try.
" try crawling across the M40 and see how far you get "

Be alright on the M25, that's mostly at a stand still:)
 

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Kit Reviewer
" try crawling across the M40 and see how far you get "

Be alright on the M25, that's mostly at a stand still:)
It's a favoured campsite for the urban explorers.
 
Please send the real Kinder Eggs over! For God's sake the ones they have Stateside suck.
Not so fast Jonesy: Import of Kinder Eggs into the US is banned :

Import Alert 34-02


Violates Section 402(d)(1) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act which states that confectionery having partially, or completely imbedded therein, any non-nutritive object is adulterated unless FDA has issued a regulation recognizing that the non-nutritive object is of practical functional value to the confectionery product and would not render the product injurious or hazardous to health.

Sad that I know that really...
 
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I dont feel the need to upload my location so everyone can see where I am all the time, but nice to know the right people can find me if i do f**k up.
Oh yes!

Just on that, it's funny how sometimes precaution and a dry sense of humour can alarm people.

One weekend, I went for a walk up a jebel out somewhere craggy rather than sandy. Nothing particularly dangerous or stupid (well, relatively speaking), but always pays to treat the outdoors with respect.

Anyone, I left a details, a map and route marker with a friend who looked rather confused.

"What am I to do with this?", they asked

"well, it's just if I don't turn up for work first thing after the weekend; you can tell the police where to come and find me".

I think my friend put this gallows humour down to the rather bleak humour I often display. Fair play, they gave me the map and way-point list back and welcomed me back somewhat relieved.

I tried to explain the love of the outdoors with some poetry, my friend is an excellent English speaker and simply nodded slowly in agreement and walked off shaking her head......

It is their treasure,
it is their pleasure,
thus are their hearts inclined:
For Allah created the English mad,
the maddest of all mankind!
 

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Kit Reviewer
Can you imagine the whinging about the cold on the way up there.
If the phrase, "my flaps have frozen to my rods" was used it'd be understandable
 
Yeah, I looked a those, for years in fact but when this came out it met all the criteria, the only issue I had was that I had come pretty close a couple of times to a fairly binary fail where there was a reasonable prospect that I'd be sufficiently badly hurt that I'd be unable to activate it. Hence in tracking mode if I were hurt and unable to help myself in anyway at least they'd get a nearest location within a 10 minute window. That was the idea at least, I'm not so convinced it'd be that good but at least it wouldn't be you've got this whole mountain range to search from a start point +4 hours of running and whilst I'd head in a known ish direction, depending on the terrain that can change. That was the other nice thing about it being able to change your mind and not have to worry about now breaking with your stay behind plan.

But yes, the ongoing cost is a thing and the implementation isn't the best. Put it this way if I were not on my own then a RescueMe or a 3Si would be in my kit.
I have a locat beacon for flying ( well actually for the quiet bit after flying if it’s all gone a bit tits up somewhere with no street lights or kerbstones, or people). Bought from harry the puff ( Harry mendholsons In Edinburgh about 15 years ago) .its on its second battery and just sits in my bag.
The ASR men tell me unless it’s at the bottom of a smoking hole at the bottom of a deep valley they usually can get a homing lock on one from about fifteen miles out on a good day .as previous posters have said its simple ( pull the pin or immerse in water for a min or so) and sends out a clear unambiguous HELP ME on most of the distress frequencies.
To be honest it would only get used if I’d broken something and couldn’t move. But good to have just in case.
 

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